Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Sept 21, 2006 13:54:42 GMT -4
I think the man is an embarrassment to my state and a university that is owned and operated by my religion - that's why I contributed.
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Post by Bill Thompson on Sept 22, 2006 1:40:10 GMT -4
I think the man is an embarrassment to my state and a university that is owned and operated by my religion - that's why I contributed. "Contributed"?
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Sept 22, 2006 10:33:58 GMT -4
Contributed to the thread. Posted messages - whatever you want to call it.
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Post by Bill Thompson on Sept 24, 2006 19:42:02 GMT -4
Contributed to the thread. Posted messages - whatever you want to call it. OK, I understand. BYU is a Mormon college. You throwing out the word "religion" after I mentioned Stern derailed me for a second. I thought you were talking about this shock jock instead of the BYU professor. I was wondering what sort of religion is this and how did you contribute. Weren't other BYU professors in a mess because they had concluded that the ancient americans could not have been a lost tribe from Israel? I remember reading something about that a few years ago. Should religion and science really mix at all?
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Sept 25, 2006 10:53:25 GMT -4
You are referring to a genetic study that was done on native americans that declared they did not seem to have any jewish genetic markers. Some scientists said that the Book of Mormon had therefore been disproven. The main body of the Book of Mormon concerns a group of Israelites who departed Jerusalem around 600 BC and journeyed to the Americas. It also states that some of their descendents are the native americans that were found by the Europeans. The problems with saying "this study disproves the Book of Mormon" include: 1. How do we know which genetic markers of jews today correspond with those of the Israelites of 600 BC - a time before they were conquered and dispersed from ancient Israel? 2. The Book of Mormon does not state that all native americans are descendents of the people it describes - there are other groups present in the Americas during the narrative.
So if the study had found jewish genetic markers that might have been something, but failing to find them doesn't prove anything.
Should religion and science mix at all? I would say it depends on your definition of "mix".
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Post by captain swoop on Sept 25, 2006 10:54:40 GMT -4
Everyone knows that the Ancient Britons were the lost tribe of Israel! theres a group that think so anyway! It has a hidtory going back to the 17th C
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Post by Bill Thompson on Sept 25, 2006 12:01:11 GMT -4
Faith blinds.
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Sept 25, 2006 12:35:04 GMT -4
Faith enlightens.
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Post by gillianren on Sept 25, 2006 16:31:19 GMT -4
Yeah, hence the term "blind faith."
I'm not going to bother pointing out other major historical errors to the Book of Mormon (I could, easily), because you won't listen. I leave my knowledge of the flaws of any religion out of discussing it with its adherents. Catholics don't care about the failings of the Renaissance Popes; you don't care about Joseph Smith's visiting pubs.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Sept 25, 2006 17:17:52 GMT -4
Not that I'm wanting to get into a regilious argument here, so I'm going to just do a hit and run, but here's my take on The Book of Mormon.
6I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!
Galations 1:6-9
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Sept 25, 2006 17:22:24 GMT -4
Since this thread has nothing to do with historic errors in the Book of Mormon, I suggest you start a new thread - possibly in the "Beyond Belief" section, where much of the religious discussion I have engaged in on this forum is to be found. Saying "I know you won't listen" sounds like an easy way to end an argument before it begins. Nevertheless I deny the claim that there are any historic errors in the text, and will be happy to do my best to explain any you think you may have found (you did read the text yourself before declaring it historically inaccurate, didn't you?).
I hadn't heard the one about Joseph Smith visiting pubs, but your'e right - I am unlikely to be convinced it is in any way significant.
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Sept 25, 2006 17:25:57 GMT -4
Phantom Wolf, I'd be happy to move the debate to another thread.
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Post by Bill Thompson on Sept 25, 2006 21:32:07 GMT -4
Sure it does. Faith enlightens. We know the book of Mormon cannot be wrong. I have been told it is impossible to find an error in it. The Quran has no errors in it either, so I am told, eventhough it is supposed to be the word of God and yet begins with a prayer. Ah but it is because something must be lost in translation and I need to appreciate the Arabic poetry or something like that. Sigh. Why would I debate someone whom I am sure is incapable of changing his mind? It seems like a waste of time to me. But if you want to start a separate thread, I will participate. My participation will be a reflection of my open mind. Will yours? I think your participation will be a reflection of either your ambition to defend your faith (in which case the debate will end in you becoming enraged), or it is because you doubt your faith (which is unlikely), or because you have a calling to convert the unbelievers -- which actually, I do not consider myself really to be. You see, all religions are second degree truths. They are true because we know them to be true in our hearts. If you defend them using science or logic you are in for a train wreck.
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Sept 25, 2006 23:10:13 GMT -4
Oh there are errors in the Book of Mormon. Just nothing really significant. See you on the other thread.
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Post by bloggy on Oct 24, 2006 20:05:38 GMT -4
Earlier there was some discussion about the WTC fire after the jets crashed.
Does anyone see any significance in the fact that there was actually a fire in one of the towers in 1975? Something like ten floors were involved.
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