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Post by gillianren on Dec 20, 2008 12:55:22 GMT -4
There's a first.
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Post by lunarboater on Dec 27, 2008 1:08:22 GMT -4
Are there any threads that have actual NASA employees discussing these hoaxes? Are they bound by some sort of confidentiality agreement? With all of the NASA employees out there one would think they would be all over this, with proof, etc. But all we have are self proclaimed experts and I will agree they are very intelligent, brite and forethcoming I'm a former NASA employee if that counts for anything. I worked for NASA from 6/99 to 12/03 as an ISS ADCO and then the European Space Agency from 1/04 to 7/08. I'm currently pursuing a Master degree at the University of Texas. I used to be pretty active debunking the hoax believers online but I: 1) found the whole thing to remarkably futile 2) got too busy to indulge in such things People often fail to realize that NASA isn't the NSA, the CIA, or the military. It is a civilian organization with nothing to hide. With extremely rare exceptions, NASA employees aren't required to get secret clearance or sign confidentiality or non-disclosure agreements. The only example of secret clearance that I can think of would be the handful of shuttle DoD missions that occurred a while back or the current ISS TOPOs (they interface with NORAD know something secret about space tracking - I think!). Where are the NASA people with all the proof? Well, the proof is public. There isn't any more that NASA people can share.
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Post by Ginnie on Dec 27, 2008 1:45:10 GMT -4
Welcome to the board!
As Ben Franklin once said: "A secret known to three people can be kept — as long as two of them are dead."
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Post by JayUtah on Dec 27, 2008 2:22:10 GMT -4
I'm a former NASA employee if that counts for anything.
Around here it can be equivalent to pasting a target to your fanny. But welcome anyway!
People often fail to realize that NASA isn't the NSA, the CIA, or the military. It is a civilian organization with nothing to hide.
Most of the conspiracy theorists have actually had no dealings whatsoever with NASA. They are simply identifying NASA as the predefined villain. Any agency or office of government is part of the Powers That Be, whose unified purpose is to oppress and deceive the masses. This is the notion they start with, not the notion they arrive at after examining any evidence.
There isn't any more that NASA people can share.
It's less about disclosing information and more about being paid attention to. Conspiracy theorists want to be noticed, and want to stay continually relevant. When NASA largely ignores them, it infuriates them. That's why they keep needling NASA. "Pay attention to me! Validate me!"
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Post by lunarboater on Dec 29, 2008 1:27:46 GMT -4
Hi Jay,
Thanks for the welcome - we actually crossed paths over on the BAUT forums a few years back. I'm glad to see you're still at it!
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Post by JayUtah on Dec 29, 2008 1:31:16 GMT -4
Yes, I seem to recall you there too. Nice to see you again!
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Post by lunarboater on Dec 29, 2008 4:07:01 GMT -4
Likewise! I collected a few memorable quotes of yours over the years (years!?) which I still enjoy.
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Post by Halcyon Dayz, FCD on Dec 29, 2008 8:41:56 GMT -4
I collected a few memorable quotes of yours over the years (years!?) which I still enjoy. I confess I do the same. One of my favorites is: Defibrillating a dead argument produces the semblance of life in the flopping corpse only for as long as you continue to apply current. That doesn't mean reanimation is iminent.
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Post by Grand Lunar on Dec 29, 2008 16:50:28 GMT -4
The hoax believers have the oppisite viewpoint, not surprisingly.
I've seen them insist that NASA is a military organization (despite the aim by Eisenhower's creation of the organization to seperate the military from space based projects), that appearently engages in either character assasination, or have death squads.
You've probably seen the claims that NASA deliberately arranged the deaths of the Apollo 1 astronauts, using Grissom's pessimism at the time as an example, as well as the death of Thomas Baron. Yet somehow, the HBs still live. They insist that NASA perfers character assasination for them. If this isn't a case of having your cake and eating it too, I don't know what is.
BTW, I love that quote from Jay you provided, Halcyon!
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Post by Obviousman on Dec 30, 2008 4:00:16 GMT -4
That "military" bit is fav of mine. They refer to the NASA charter... but when you read the charter / act, you see that it is completely out of context and quite legitimate.
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Post by dragonblaster on Dec 30, 2008 6:29:48 GMT -4
Grissom's pessimism at the time And that old cherry, too. He didn't hang a lemon on the spacecraft, but on the simulator - a rapid series of changes in the Block 1 s/c meant that the sim got left behind. It was no longer an entirely faithful representation of the cockpit layout. I'm not aware of him expressing any pessimism about the spacecraft, unless one of the more knowledgeable Apollo cognoscenti can put me right.
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Post by Obviousman on Dec 30, 2008 9:34:35 GMT -4
Grissom's pessimism at the time And that old cherry, too. He didn't hang a lemon on the spacecraft, but on the simulator - a rapid series of changes in the Block 1 s/c meant that the sim got left behind. It was no longer an entirely faithful representation of the cockpit layout. I'm not aware of him expressing any pessimism about the spacecraft, unless one of the more knowledgeable Apollo cognoscenti can put me right. Oh, they did indeed express great concern about the Block I CM - but they believed they could live with it, and that errors would be corrected with the Block II CM. There is NO WAY Gus or any of the other Apollo 1 crew would have strapped into a spacecraft they believed was unacceptably dangerous.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Dec 30, 2008 14:03:10 GMT -4
I still think it's funny that that the HB's use Gus' complaints as a reason to believe a Hoax when NASA selected Gus because of his willingness to complain and get things done right. If you plan to put a new spacecraft through its paces, pick the guy that nitpicks and complains about everything for the shakedown Commander, he'll soon tell you what is going wrong.
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