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Post by Ginnie on Jan 27, 2009 22:01:28 GMT -4
Well, that the thing isn't it? I mean, all major religions claim to be compassionate and just. But somehow, it's "do as I say, not as I do"... Mankind's nature just seems to have so much violence embedded in it that any religion makes so little difference in our behavior. Unless religion encourages it? We've gone over that before so lets just leave that question alone...
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Post by LunarOrbit on Jan 27, 2009 22:12:28 GMT -4
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Post by Ginnie on Jan 27, 2009 22:50:47 GMT -4
...what does that guy know anyway...is he an expert? ... why should we believe him? ....he's making that up...what didn't work for him could work for someone else....he's only one guy, what about all the other torturers and their results... can we trust what he says? He won't even give his real name...he probably has an agenda... Just heading off some explanations from the pro-torture people.
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Post by RAF on Jan 28, 2009 0:43:28 GMT -4
I think it's the hypocrisy that annoys non-believers more than anything. You are correct at least from my perspective. IMO there is nothing worse than a hypocrite. It's kinda funny because I was avoiding the use of the "H" word because I thought it would be going "too far".
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Post by gillianren on Jan 28, 2009 1:58:56 GMT -4
...what does that guy know anyway...is he an expert? ... why should we believe him? ....he's making that up...what didn't work for him could work for someone else....he's only one guy, what about all the other torturers and their results... can we trust what he says? He won't even give his real name...he probably has an agenda... Just heading off some explanations from the pro-torture people. You know, I think I saw that guy on The Daily Show. You know no one who goes on The Daily Show can be trusted about anything.
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Post by lionking on Jan 28, 2009 3:30:29 GMT -4
OT: Ginnie in his third photo from the right looks so much like the actor George Shalhoub www.lbcgroup.tv/LBC/Gallery/Programs/Photos/Thumbnails/georges-shalhoubth160108-111348-.jpgever thaught of acting? as for the topic, as mensioned before, organizations dealing with human rights has writen reports about torture done by the Busg administration, and they just don't write them out of nothing, so there is no need to proceed with weather torture was used or not.
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Al Johnston
"Cheer up!" they said, "It could be worse!" So I did, and it was.
Posts: 1,453
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Post by Al Johnston on Jan 28, 2009 6:27:07 GMT -4
I mean, Jay goes to church, but his beliefs seem to go unmolested here. But again, he perhaps wisely stays away from some of our more emotional threads. Jay tends to argue purely from facts and evidence: invincibly so, it sometimes appears ;D Jason, OTOH has on occasion taken up positions indefensible apart from "Godsaysso". When he takes a position that appears to go against, if not god's apparently infinitely malleable word, then at least his PR, it's not too much of a surprise when that's pointed out...
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Jason
Pluto
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Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Jan 28, 2009 11:54:31 GMT -4
Jason, OTOH has on occasion taken up positions indefensible apart from "Godsaysso". When he takes a position that appears to go against, if not god's apparently infinitely malleable word, then at least his PR, it's not too much of a surprise when that's pointed out... Like?
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Jan 28, 2009 16:35:46 GMT -4
Let me explain a bit. I don't think that I have, actually, taken any position outside of some of the religion threads in the beyond belief section that was "indefensible apart from 'Godsaysso'." Certainly I have made every effort to provide my secular reasons for believing as I do on this and in other threads. Yes, I do have strictly secular reasons for believing many if not most of the things I believe. I may appear to be ultra-religious on this forum because I have discussed religion at length in various threads (obviously I find the subject interesting), but I don't really sit and think about what Jesus would do every waking moment of my life, people. I didn't even consider this issue on torture from a religious standpoint until I began to be attacked as being inconsistent - my viewpoint up until then had been strictly secular. After consideration, I think my secular viewpoint is reasonably in line with my religious ideas, so I see no need to change it because of them. I gave some of my reasoning for that, but I really don't feel its particularly relevent.
I have a sneaking suspicion that, because I have been so vocal about my religion, many others read religion into my arguments whether it's really there or not. I suspect that perfectly sound arguments are rejected simply because I, someone who is known to be religious, am the one who made them, and therefore there must be some irrationality at their base. This effect may be compounded by the fact that my particular religion is quite distinct from what might be called "mainstream" Protestantism, and is generally little understood by those not familiar with it.
If what I say is being dismissed because I'm the one who said it then I hope my calling awareness to the fact can help put an end to the practice.
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Post by Ginnie on Jan 28, 2009 18:40:43 GMT -4
OT: Ginnie in his third photo from the right looks so much like the actor George Shalhoub www.lbcgroup.tv/LBC/Gallery/Programs/Photos/Thumbnails/georges-shalhoubth160108-111348-.jpgever thaught of acting? as for the topic, as mensioned before, organizations dealing with human rights has writen reports about torture done by the Busg administration, and they just don't write them out of nothing, so there is no need to proceed with weather torture was used or not. I act all the time on this forum. ;D ;D ;D And I don't think I look like that fellow at all.
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Post by Ginnie on Jan 28, 2009 18:44:44 GMT -4
I'm not surprised that any Christian would use torture anyway. Christianity has a fine history of using it. The only religion that I can think of that would probably never use torture are Mennonites and Amish, although they are Christian.
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Post by Ginnie on Jan 28, 2009 18:47:59 GMT -4
Let me explain a bit. I don't think that I have, actually, taken any position outside of some of the religion threads in the beyond belief section that was "indefensible apart from 'Godsaysso'." Certainly I have made every effort to provide my secular reasons for believing as I do on this and in other threads. Yes, I do have strictly secular reasons for believing many if not most of the things I believe. I may appear to be ultra-religious on this forum because I have discussed religion at length in various threads (obviously I find the subject interesting), but I don't really sit and think about what Jesus would do every waking moment of my life, people. I didn't even consider this issue on torture from a religious standpoint until I began to be attacked as being inconsistent - my viewpoint up until then had been strictly secular. After consideration, I think my secular viewpoint is reasonably in line with my religious ideas, so I see no need to change it because of them. I gave some of my reasoning for that, but I really don't feel its particularly relevent. I have a sneaking suspicion that, because I have been so vocal about my religion, many others read religion into my arguments whether it's really there or not. I suspect that perfectly sound arguments are rejected simply because I, someone who is known to be religious, am the one who made them, and therefore there must be some irrationality at their base. This effect may be compounded by the fact that my particular religion is quite distinct from what might be called "mainstream" Protestantism, and is generally little understood by those not familiar with it. If what I say is being dismissed because I'm the one who said it then I hope my calling awareness to the fact can help put an end to the practice. I consider you more of a Republican than a Christian, Jason.
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Post by Grand Lunar on Jan 28, 2009 19:42:17 GMT -4
So, this thread goes from bidding farewell to Bush, to discussing torture, to an examination of Jason's faith? Am I missing something here?
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Jason
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Post by Jason on Jan 28, 2009 19:45:52 GMT -4
I consider you more of a Republican than a Christian, Jason. I'm not really sure how to take that, as a compliment or an insult.
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Jason
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Post by Jason on Jan 28, 2009 19:47:45 GMT -4
So, this thread goes from bidding farewell to Bush, to discussing torture, to an examination of Jason's faith? Am I missing something here? Lots of posts by someone who seems to have a real beef against religion in general and doesn't seem to like me very much.
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