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Post by Grand Lunar on Jan 28, 2009 19:52:22 GMT -4
So, this thread goes from bidding farewell to Bush, to discussing torture, to an examination of Jason's faith? Am I missing something here? Lots of posts by someone who seems to have a real beef against religion in general and doesn't seem to like me very much. For that reason, I feel this thread has gotten out of hand as far as civility goes. I believe it should end before someone gets banned over something silly, like name calling.
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Post by Ginnie on Jan 28, 2009 20:24:14 GMT -4
So, this thread goes from bidding farewell to Bush, to discussing torture, to an examination of Jason's faith? Am I missing something here? No, you're not missing anything - but well said nonetheless. Bye, bye, GW!
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Post by LunarOrbit on Jan 28, 2009 22:44:25 GMT -4
I'm not surprised that any Christian would use torture anyway. Christianity has a fine history of using it. I would have thought Christians would be very much against torture considering the way Jesus' life ended.
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Jan 29, 2009 0:46:39 GMT -4
That's just it though - the centerpiece of the Christian religion is a torture and death that was horrible but necessary.
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Post by trevor on Jan 29, 2009 3:00:58 GMT -4
See, that's what I love about you Jason, you always have a really good come back. It makes for some very interesting debates. Even though I sometimes disagree with you, and I'm not a constant participant on the forum, I do enjoy reading your views on things.
As we say in Aussie land - Good onya maate! And may you never stop posting.
Trev.
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Post by RAF on Jan 29, 2009 10:16:46 GMT -4
Lots of posts by someone who seems to have a real beef against religion in general... We live in a very dangerous world. We can not afford the luxury of allowing "magical thinking" to divert attention from the problems that we all face, and praying real hard will not solve those problems. Is it really any "surprise" that I have a problem with religion? Perhaps in the beginning, but now that I understand that you were raised this way, I can't really fault you for the beliefs you hold. However,I can fault you for not understanding why others might not feel the way that you do. ...and before you say, "I don't do that", I would remind you of the discussion we had where you tried to convince me that god was (paraphrasing) "looking out for me" whether I believed in him or not. Talk about insulting one's intelligence...
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Jan 29, 2009 12:02:37 GMT -4
I have no response to RAF's last post that is not as insulting as it was to me. Rather than risk being banned I will simply ignore RAF's posts from now on.
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Post by echnaton on Jan 29, 2009 12:28:14 GMT -4
We live in a very dangerous world. We can not afford the luxury of allowing "magical thinking" to divert attention from the problems that we all face, and praying real hard will not solve those problems. This is not all true. I and many have found significant help through prayer in solving many of the problems we all face. I think the key is to how problems are defined. Prayer will not solve the global economic crisis and won't answer questions about global warming. But it can help people live with circumstances that are not of their making and aid them in finding new strength to solve personal situations. Denying the power of prayer and community to help people in their lives is to display an ignorance of the benefits most of us seek and get from religion. I am a strong advocate of science, but it is not a replacement for religious community membership.
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Jan 29, 2009 13:09:55 GMT -4
My attitude is that prayer is what you do after you have done everything you can to resolve a situation yourself.
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Post by RAF on Jan 29, 2009 13:16:06 GMT -4
I have no response to RAF's last post that is not as insulting as it was to me. Rather than risk being banned I will simply ignore RAF's posts from now on. To use a card game as an analogy, I'm not surprised that you "folded" when you realized that you didn't hold the "winning hand". I and many have found significant help through prayer in solving many of the problems we all face...snip...denying the power of prayer and community to help people in their lives is to display an ignorance of the benefits most of us seek and get from religion. By what criteria do you differentiate between help from prayer, and help from inner strength. It is amazing to me how some people have such little "faith" in themselves. Why are you trying to make it a "choice" between the 2? All religions are based on the belief in the writings of ordinary men, while science uses testable evidence to describe the reality of the world around us. There is no comparison between the 2... Don't get me wrong...I'm sure that those who pray do receive a benefit, but you can not postulate that prayer is the reason for that benefit because religious beliefs are not falsifiable. It seems that on a board devoted to the reality of the Apollo landings, that this wouldn't be such a difficult thing to understand.
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Post by echnaton on Jan 29, 2009 13:40:42 GMT -4
Don't get me wrong...I'm sure that those who pray do receive a benefit, but you can not postulate that prayer is the reason for that benefit because religious beliefs are not falsifiable.
Certainly you can make such a postulation about prayer and it is testable. The benefits of prayer are as testable as the benefits of active therapy. I suspect the answer is it works for some and not for others. What you cannot postulate is the intervention of a supernatural being invoked in prayer. I thoroughly agree that there is no evidence that prayer for specific physical outcomes has any effect.
I do not make the claim of a supernatural being intervening on my behalf. I believe that to be the case and that is my faith, but also realize that prayer could just awaken natural psychological states that provide the same benefits and no not require supernatural powers.
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Post by RAF on Jan 29, 2009 20:00:25 GMT -4
I will simply ignore RAF's posts from now on. That didn't stop you from sending me an insulting PM... You seem awfully mad. What ever happened to the whole "turn the other cheek/god is love" thing? Talk about hypocracy...your behavior is almost textbook example. ...and if you have anything else to say to me, then say it on the open board, so everyone can see what you're really like.
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Post by trevor on Jan 29, 2009 21:07:50 GMT -4
Hey RAF,
Take a chill pill dude.
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Feb 2, 2009 17:17:07 GMT -4
A story from the NYT today: "Iraqis voted on Saturday for local representatives, on an almost violence-free election day aimed at creating provincial councils that more closely represent Iraq's ethnic, sectarian and tribal balance. By nightfall, there were no confirmed deaths, and children played soccer on closed-off streets in a generally joyous atmosphere."
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Post by trevor on Feb 2, 2009 17:36:05 GMT -4
Well thats good news for once.
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