The Best Battlestar

[Jason]

Alright, since I'm not going to talk about climate change for a while, it's time for something completely different.

And really, this is mostly an excuse to have a little spoiler-rich discussion about what I think is probably the best show on TV right now.

I loved the original Battlestar Galactica when it originally aired. I was about 6 at the time, and coming home from church and watching Battlestar Galactica with my parents while we ate dinner is one of my treasured childhood memories. Playing Battlestar Galactica was for a time almost as popular as playing Star Wars on the playground, and I got several of the toy ships for Christmas, with their tiny figures and nifty spring-loaded shooting pegs that would never be built into toys these days. I still had some of the ships long after I had lost the cockpits, figures, and pegs.

I even enjoyed watching the few episodes of Galactica 1980. I remember I thought the flying motorcycles were pretty neat (again, I was 7), and I built several versions out of Legos.

Watching the original series again today (of course I have the DVDs) I can see the flaws I didn't see then. Starbuck is an obvious Han Solo type to play against Apollo's straight-arrow Luke, lots of the special effects footage was recycled every episode, and Commander Cain isn't nearly as cool as I remember he was. Still, I can put on an episode when I feel like it and enjoy some grade-A nostalgia and remember simpler times.

So along comes the Sci-Fi Channel mini-series in 2003. And I looked at the promos and thought to myself "Starbuck is a woman? Well that's different. Cylons that look like humans? Well that probably saved them a few dollars in chrome suits. And it sure looks dark in tone."
I was a little apprehensive when the show premiered, not knowing exactly what to expect. The opening was a bit weird. I wasn't sure this was my kind of show when Six had sex with that silly glowing spine and then killed a baby.
But the moment the first few nukes went off on Caprica I was hooked. At that point I realized they were going to take the basic premise of the old series and treat it seriously. We weren't going to see the Cylons bombing a few buildings and then never again mention the fact that they killed 12 planets worth of humans and destroyed an entire civilization. There were going to be real repercussions from that act.
And it came to me - of course the tone had to be dark - only in the seventies could you have made a feel-good upbeat show that opened with the near-destruction of humanity.

And things only got better after that.

So, I've rambled on long enough with this opening post. I'm pretty sure I know how the poll is going to turn out, but surely someone out there wants to talk about BSG.

[Al Johnston]

The most horrific thing in the original series was that awful robot dog...

[Ginnie]

I never watched either Battlestar series. The original, with Lorne Greene (right?) I might have seen a couple of times (the Starbuck character seems vaguely familiar).
Mr. Greene will always be Mr. Cartright to me. ;D
I did watch a lot of Space:1999, but couldn't tell you anything about it because it wasn't that memorable I guess.

Jason, you mention watching the show after coming home from church. I used to do that too in the early 1960's - but the show was Lost In Space.

I know this is a serious thread, and I don't want to throw if offtrack too much but I am presently watching (along with my son and wife) the complete Buffy the Vampire Slayer series. I'm really surprised how good it is, having missed most of it the first time around. Joss Whedon writes such witty dialogue.

[LunarOrbit]

I don't remember watching the original when I was a kid, but I've seen a few episodes in repeats. The new series beats it by far, I agree it's probably the best show on TV right now. It's too bad it's in the final season.

So who do you think is the final cylon? Someone in a TV interview that I saw said it could be Tom Zarek. That might be cool, but it will probably be a bigger character.

[Jason]

I did mention this discussion might get spoiler-rich, didn't I? Beware if you haven't seen it.

Buffy is an excellent series. I missed a good portion of it too the first time around.

Did you know Daggit the robot dog on the original series was a chimp in a suit?

And the big question - who is the final cylon?
Well, I think it's NOT:
Starbuck. It's simply too easy now. No, I think Starbuck's death and rebirth has another explanation.

Either of the Adamas. For one thing, Adama saw where the first hybrid was created. That's a pretty good sign that he isn't a Cylon. And Lee had a grandfather that other people have met. Also the proposed Caprica spin-off series was going to figure Lee's grandfather, so he probably was a real person. Lee might be the final Cylon, but that would make the father-son relationship essentially a lie, and I think the writers aren't going to do that.

Laura Rosalyn. I think it's too important to the series that Laura be a human being. Personally I predict that Rosalyn won't survive the series. Like Moses, she won't live to settle in the Promised Land. And I think there's a good possibility Adama won't either.

Helo. The visions in Baltar and Caprica Six's head both seem to think Hera is authentically the first human-Cylon fusion. That to me is a good sign that Helo is human.

Baltar. Baltar almost convinced himself that he was a Cylon last season, but I think he's not. He's too good for the series as a human.

Zarek. Again, too obvious.

So, that leaves:
Cally. This one might be interesting. Of course that makes Nicki the first biologically reproduced Cylon rather than another human-Cylon fusion.

Dee. I would find this one less interesting, but it's possible.

Gaeta. I think this one is unlikely, but then I thought Tigh was impossible.

Boy, who's left? Seelix, Hotdog, and Racetrack? Dr. Cottle? They all seem too minor to be the fifth. A lot of Galactica's minor characters haven't made it this far - Billy, Kat, Ellen. They might have been good candidates if they had lived.

I predict that the fifth Cylon will be revealed when the other Cylons unbox D'Anna and ask her who she saw.

And I like the idea that the show will have a definite conclusion, and on the terms of the producers. Too many shows outstay their welcome.

[LunarOrbit]

I don't think it will be Cally. I think Hera and Nicki are going to end up being like "Adam and Eve". So Cally needs to be human. It can't be Helo either, for the same reason.

When D'Anna saw the final five in the temple she said to one of them something like "Forgive me, I had no idea!", as if that one particular Cylon was someone really important. That is the only thing that makes me suspect it is President Rosalyn or Admiral Adama, but I agree that it's probably necessary for the story that they be human.

It could be Lee Adama. I've got a theory that all of the human looking Cylons are copies of actual people who at some point were captured. So Lee could be a copy of Bill Adama's real son, Tigh could be a copy of Adama's real friend, etc. But Lee was on Galactica when the other four heard the song and had their switches flipped, so why didn't it happen to him too?

Maybe Caine from the Pegasus will return as a Cylon.

Hmmm.... I just had a thought. What if the fifth Cylon is someone from Earth? The Galactica finally reaches Earth, with a dozen Cylon baseships in hot pursuit, and when they contact the world's most powerful leader George Bush answers and says... "by your command!" with glowing red eyes. lol

Actually, I'm betting that when they do reach Earth it will be in our distant past.

I don't know what would be worse... revealing the final Cylon early in the season, or not until the end. I can't wait to find out, but the show might become anti-climatic if they reveal it too soon.

[Jason]

admin said:

I don't think it will be Cally. I think Hera and Nicki are going to end up being like "Adam and Eve". So Cally needs to be human. It can't be Helo either, for the same reason.

Yeah, I'm rather of that opinion too.
The whole "end of the human race" that Starbuck is supposed to lead them to might simply be the merging of the human race with the Cylons - accomplished through Hera and Nicki and their descendents.

When D'Anna saw the final five in the temple she said to one of them something like "Forgive me, I had no idea!", as if that one particular Cylon was someone really important.

I believe it was Tigh she saw. D'Anna didn't treat Tigh too well in "Final Cut", and she probably knew they had plucked his eye out in New Caprica detention too. Those would be good reasons for her to apologize to him when she saw him as one of the five.

That is the only thing that makes me suspect it is President Rosalyn or Admiral Adama, but I agree that it's probably necessary for the story that they be human.

I'm pretty sure it's not Adama but I'm not quite as sure that it isn't Rosalyn. It would be an interesting irony for the leader of humanity who successfully gets them to Earth to really be a Cylon. In fact, Rosalyn may end up being the best choice. And the fact that she is sharing projections with Caprica Six and Athena may be an indication that she is actually a Cylon. But are Cylons subject to cancer? Was the cancer "programmed" into her?

It could be Lee Adama. I've got a theory that all of the human looking Cylons are copies of actual people who at some point were captured. So Lee could be a copy of Bill Adama's real son, Tigh could be a copy of Adama's real friend, etc.

An interesting idea. The first hybrid apparently was made from an actual person, so it's possible the five are human beings who were either added to or copied. If that's the case then Lee could be a Cylon, and the series could still keep the father/son relationship. But I don't think it's Lee.

It seems to me that the final five are all "single models" - that is that there is only one of each. I could be wrong. They might find a whole baseship crewed by Tighs, Torys, Anders, and Tyrols later on, but that's not the impression I get.
And it seems like the five have a superior position to the other models. Caprica Six said she was programmed "not to think of them" - programmed by who? The Five? And Anders can apparently send a signal that sends all the raiders into retreat mode.
The Father Cavil Cylons seem to know more about the Five than the other Cylons, and to want to keep their identities secret. I wonder why? Is it a coincidence that the oldest-looking Cylon model of the Seven seems to know more than the others about the Five and, presumably, the origin of the Seven?

But Lee was on Galactica when the other four heard the song and had their switches flipped, so why didn't it happen to him too?

It's possible that the final Cylon of the Five is the one that knows what's going on, and kept his/her memory, in which case he/she didn't need to be triggered. Another question might be "why were they all triggered at this point?" Because Starbuck was about to reappear? That would imply a relationship between the five and whoever is behind Head-Six, Head-Baltar, Not-Leoban, and Starbuck's reappearance.
I've long thought that Baltar and Caprica Six's visions were a "third party" as it were, someone interfering in both the Cylons' and the Colonials' affairs. It could be the original Lords of Kobol, ascended to a higher state, or it could even be the future descendents of the Cylon and Colonial civilizations, having journeyed back through time to ensure their future.
Or I suppose they might really be angels from God, as Head-Six claims, although I think that's unlikely.

Maybe Caine from the Pegasus will return as a Cylon.

That would be cool, but unlikely, I think.

Hmmm.... I just had a thought. What if the fifth Cylon is someone from Earth? The Galactica finally reaches Earth, with a dozen Cylon baseships in hot pursuit, and when they contact the world's most powerful leader George Bush answers and says... "by your command!" with glowing red eyes. lol

Oh I totally believe that Hilary Clinton could be a Cylon.
But I believe the producers have said the fifth Cylon is someone we've already met.

Actually, I'm betting that when they do reach Earth it will be in our distant past.

That's something I've thought before too. A good possibility is that the surviving colonials will find an empty planet and become our ancestors (that was kind of the original idea of the original series). But then where did the people of the thirteenth colony disappear to?

It might be interesting to have them show up on our modern-day Earth too, if they do it in just the very last episode. No Galactica 1980-style adventures.

I don't know what would be worse... revealing the final Cylon early in the season, or not until the end. I can't wait to find out, but the show might become anti-climatic if they reveal it too soon.

I've heard that it will be fairly early in the season, actually - definitely not in the end of the season. Probably at the mid-season break is my guess.

[Jason]

For you people who haven't seen any episodes of BSG - shame on you! Go buy the DVDs of the First Season right now!

[Jason]

Hmph. Obviously, judging from the lackluster response to the poll, there is a lamentable shortage of real BSG fans on this forum.

[Ginnie]

jason said:

Hmph. Obviously, judging from the lackluster response to the poll, there is a lamentable shortage of real BSG fans on this forum.

Well, BSG is hardly Star Trek, or even Firefly.

[Jason]

ginniegatrit said:

jason said:

Hmph. Obviously, judging from the lackluster response to the poll, there is a lamentable shortage of real BSG fans on this forum.

Well, BSG is hardly Star Trek, or even Firefly.

-Says someone who has never seen the show.

Zoic, the same guys who did the special effects for Firefly do them for BSG in essentially the same style (in fact the Serenity does a background cameo in the BSG mini-series that kicked the whole show off), Jane Espenson (late of Firefly) wrote two third season episodes and is a producer of the current season, and Joss Whedon appeared on the Battlestar Galactica: The Phenomeon promotional leading up to the Fourth Season where he said he loved BSG. There's no aliens in BSG either.
If it's not quite Firefly, it's as close as we're going to get.

And of course, Ronald D. Moore, the co-creator and Executive Producer of the current BSG, worked as a writer or producer on The Next Generation, Deep Space Nine, and Voyager, though he had the good sense to leave Voyager after just a few weeks. In a way, BSG is Voyager done right - a realistic portrayal of a group of ships that are cut off from their home civilization and forced to improvise, with limited personnel and resources available.

Really - go and buy the first season DVD. You won't regret it.

[Ginnie]

Hey, that sounds really interesting.
I'll have to catch a few episodes, at least for now.

I also found out what YouTube is for - watching old episodes of Scare Tactics,

[LunarOrbit]

Ginnie, if you do want to get into Battlestar Galactica I highly recommend that you start at the beginning. Don't start watching the current season until you've seen the first three seasons. There are a lot of really cool surprises in this series and they will be spoiled if you don't watch the series in order.

Go to Blockbusters and rent the first season, or at least the original mini-series and start there. I was hooked by the mini-series and it only got better from there.

[wdmundt]

I can confirm that Laura Roslin is the final Cylon. A friend of mine from college does makeup effects on Battlestar Galactica. He had to do a makeup appliance for Mary McDonnell for the revelation scene and even got to read the relevant script pages.

[wdmundt]

He sent a picture from his camera phone:

i137.photobucket.com/albums/q235/royfizbinn/roslyn-cyclon.jpg