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Post by Moon Man on Dec 16, 2006 12:31:31 GMT -4
Ever notice when the moon man makes this statement it is as clear as day yet the man on the ground ask him to repeat what he just said?
Ever notice the second moon man repeats the statement and not the original astronaugh?
Why did NASA ask them to repeat what they said?
Why were they surprised something might go wrong?
Ever notice that neither moon man tells them what is wrong; despite the explosion? They wait to be asked what is wrong.
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Post by Data Cable on Dec 16, 2006 13:10:13 GMT -4
Ever notice when the moon man makes this statement it is as clear as day yet the man on the ground ask him to repeat what he just said? Nope, never noticed that. Nope, never noticed that. Nope, never noticed that.
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Post by Grand Lunar on Dec 16, 2006 13:48:14 GMT -4
Ever notice when the moon man makes this statement it is as clear as day yet the man on the ground ask him to repeat what he just said? No. Ever think that they just wanted to double check about what was said, because it was something unexpected? So what?
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Post by Obviousman on Dec 16, 2006 16:55:00 GMT -4
And that last bit is wrong - they DID say what was wrong.
They began to read out the problems (Main Bus B undervolt, etc). Once the immediate task of being a pilot and reading out what you KNEW was happening (the warnings / alarms), Jim Lovell then said something like:
"There was a loud bang associated with those warnings & cautions..."
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Post by Obviousman on Dec 16, 2006 17:01:41 GMT -4
Actual comms:
55:55:20 (9:07 PM CT) - Swigert: "Okay, Houston, we've had a problem here."
55:55:28 - CapCom: "This is Houston. Say again please."
55:55:35 - Lovell: "Ah, Houston, we've had a problem. (pause) We've had a main B bus undervolt."
55:55:42 - CapCom (Jack Lousma): "Roger. Main B undervolt. Okay stand by 13, we're looking at it."
55:56:10 - Haise: "Okay. Right now, Houston, the voltage is a... is looking good. And we had a pretty large bang associated with the caution and warning there. And as I recall, main B was the one that had an amp spike on it once before."
55:56:30 - CapCom: "Roger, Fred."
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Post by Jason Thompson on Dec 16, 2006 19:37:49 GMT -4
Ever notice when the moon man makes this statement it is as clear as day yet the man on the ground ask him to repeat what he just said?
There were communications problems (later determined to be at least partly due to the blown out panel knocking the high gain antenna out of alignment), and it was an unexpected statement. In those circumstances it is usual to ask for repetition to confirm what has been said, not because it wasn't heard first time but to ensure it was heard correctly so that ground controllers could start working on the problem.
Ever notice the second moon man repeats the statement and not the original astronaugh?
So what? Swigert, who made the original announcement, may well have been busy. The communication setup was push-to-talk, so the astronaut had to push a button to be able to speak to the ground. If Swigert was suddenly preoccupied with something else then why should someone else not talk to the ground?
Why did NASA ask them to repeat what they said?
See above. To confirm the unexpected announcement that there was a problem and that it was a real problem that needed working, not one that had just been fixed by the astronauts.
Why were they surprised something might go wrong?
Because they were carrying out a very straightforward task. Stirring the cryotanks is a normal housekeeping procedure, and they didn't expect anything to go wrong. Certainly nothing serious.
Ever notice that neither moon man tells them what is wrong; despite the explosion? They wait to be asked what is wrong.
They do tell them what is wrong. They list the caution and warnings that have lit up in the cabin, and they report a bang that was associated with them. What other information do you believe they would have been in possession of to relay to the ground, bearing in mind that from the command module they cannot actually see any of the service module in which the explosion occurred?
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Post by PhantomWolf on Dec 16, 2006 20:43:19 GMT -4
Just a note on the explosion itself. (edited) Fred Haise described it as more a bang or muffled thud, rather than an explosion. They didn't know what was happening until he looked out the window and saw the debris and gas, at which point in time one of the ground crew twigged to what the problem might actually be. Apollo 13Jim's account:
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Post by Moon Man on Dec 16, 2006 21:20:28 GMT -4
Why didn't the moon men on earth know something blew up before they were told..?
They were montioring everything from earth..?
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Post by Jason Thompson on Dec 16, 2006 21:53:49 GMT -4
How do you identify an explosion from telemetry?
They had caution and warnings, and pressure loss in an oxygen tank. The sudden indicated loss of pressure could have been the result of a failed pressure sensor. Only once they heard about the bang, the devris and the venting did they realise that an explosion was the lilely event.
They didn't have a monitor that said 'this oxygen tank just exploded', believe it or not.
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Post by Count Zero on Dec 16, 2006 22:15:13 GMT -4
Despite the description of the bang and shimmy from the crew, it took several (IIRC, more than 10) minutes for the ground to realize that there was an explosion. They were looking at a possible instrumentation problem The reason for this is simple: They assumed that an explosion that could screw up that many things would have already killed the crew. The crew was still alive, so they looked elsewhere for the problem.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Dec 17, 2006 1:46:44 GMT -4
One of the major problems was that the sensor in the O2 tank that blew up had a fault already and was showing off the scale high. This didn't change even after the explosion and so there was no way to tell that there was a pressure loss in the second O2 tank. What they did know was they were losing pressure in the number one O2 tank, there had been an unknown bang and that the power cells were throwing alarms. Nothing said, This is an explosion. Someone had to work out what all the readings meant, exactly the same as when A12 got hit by lightning on launch. The system didn't tell the ground crew and onboard crew what was happening, they had to determine that from the scrambled data they were getting. This is why the crews and the ground crews did a huge amount of simulation training, so they would recognise the signs when something went wrong and be able to determine what it was that caused what they were seeing.
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Post by brotherofthemoon on Dec 17, 2006 1:53:13 GMT -4
You've fallen into a trap, people. Moon Man wants to know how anything life-threatening could have happened while they were busy faking the mission. Circular argument.
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Post by gillianren on Dec 17, 2006 6:03:07 GMT -4
Have you ever noticed that astronauts have names?
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Post by brotherofthemoon on Dec 17, 2006 10:12:07 GMT -4
Have you ever noticed that astronauts have names? Maybe he's one of Frank Zappa's kids.
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Post by scooter on Dec 17, 2006 11:31:13 GMT -4
Moon Man's reseach capabilities, when it comes to even the most basic knowledge of anything space, is glaringly obvious. This is just one more example. Lawyer? Photographer? Naw, just some kid playing with the "grownups"...
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