Jason
Pluto
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Post by Jason on Jun 27, 2011 17:17:16 GMT -4
Can mankind discern what is good and evil on its own? Certainly we could, but if a loving and wise parent wishes to give you advice on what is good and evil, why reinvent the wheel? Several possibilities: - Said wheel is observed to be of flawed design.
- Said loving and wise parent is observed using a wheel of different design.
- Said wheel is determined to be invented not by said loving and wise parent, but by a monopolistic sibling.
If I saw those problems I might start to worry. Then you had best stop trusting them. But make sure you have the full explanation from them as to why their advice didn't seem to work right when you used it. Care to expound? This could be read either way - as people deliberately lying about how gravity works because it serves other agendas, or as gravity not actually working.
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Jason
Pluto
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Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Jun 24, 2011 11:23:53 GMT -4
Good question, and I don't have an answer for it. I guess its simpler if you break it down to good and evil, but there's so many grey areas in between - making the right decision in all circumstances - seems to really rely on your own instincts about what is the right thing to do. After all, there's not two people on this planet who agree completely on what is right and wrong in every situation. I agree that you must make your own determination on what is right and what is wrong, which includes listening to those you trust on moral issues. And why should the fact that people can't agree mean that a thing has no objective reality? If no one agreed on exactly how fast gravity accelerates your feet to the ground it wouldn't mean that gravity doesn't in fact work. But as you say, they weren't really talking to God, were they?
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Jason
Pluto
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Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Jun 23, 2011 19:58:18 GMT -4
As an agnostic, I'm often confused over the importance of an "objective moral authority" that people of religious beliefs keep bringing up when debating with atheists. Why can't proper behavior be developed and keep evolving as mankind does - why does it have to be part of some divine creator's will? Why can't man, as he matures throughout history establish a code of conduct on his own? Does objective morality require the existence of a creator? In my view it doesn't. What is good is good and what is evil is evil, and it wasn't arbitrarily determined by God. It's simply the way the universe works. Can mankind discern what is good and evil on its own? Certainly we could, but if a loving and wise parent wishes to give you advice on what is good and evil, why reinvent the wheel?
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Jason
Pluto
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Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Jun 23, 2011 16:19:15 GMT -4
Oh . . . . Wouldn't that be a different world! You mean a world where Al Gore was president on 9/1/01? No thank you. (there doesn't appear to be an emoticon for "I'm really freaked out by the mere thought, so I'll just settle for *shudder*)
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Jun 23, 2011 15:03:48 GMT -4
How does this square with the fact that how people act can be highly depend on the situation. A child with a parent will behave differently that the same child with friends. In both cases without "thinking" to much about it because the child is under parental or peer pressures. Which is the true nature? Both are. It is the child's nature to act more respectful when a parent is present then when it is surrounded by friends. How one reacts to circumstances could be said to be part of one's nature, despite the fact that the circumstances are external. Being a metaphysical, largely unobservable or indefinable concept doesn't mean that it isn't there. We should of course be cautious at lableing others when such lables are ill-defined, but the concept may still have its uses.
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Jason
Pluto
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Post by Jason on Jun 22, 2011 18:03:29 GMT -4
Chester A. Arthur was the President rumored to have been born in Canada.
There is in fact a small "birther" movement around the circumstances of Sen. McCain's birth in Panama (at a U.S. Navy Base). There were apparently lawsuits filed on the issue, and an opinion by a US District Judge that he was eligible to serve as President. There was also a Senate resolution in 2008 that acknowledged he was legally Natural-Born.
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Jun 22, 2011 17:48:26 GMT -4
Well, some might argue that denying one's own true nature is bad in itself, and a source of evil. That if we *truly* follow our nature, it's not going to lead us wrong. I'm not making an argument that someone should deny their "true" nature, but rather that if you don't like the consequences of following your "true" nature that you need to change your nature. The counter argument - that it's always bad to go against your "true" nature - would lead to the conclusion that if you were created evil then you will be evil, and you have no choice in the matter. Something of a Calvanist viewpoint, actually. Yes, Calvin should ask whether his desires are truly evil. If they are, then he either has to accept being evil or make some changes to his desires.
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Jason
Pluto
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Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Jun 22, 2011 15:24:29 GMT -4
I'm reminded of this exchange for some reason: Calvin: If heaven is good, and if I like to be bad, how am I supposed to be happy there? Hobbes: How will you get to heaven if you like to be bad? Calvin: Let's say I didn't do what I wanted to do. Suppose I led a blameless life! Suppose I denied my true dark nature! Hobbes: I'm not sure I have that much imagination. Calvin: Maybe heaven is a place where you're allowed to be bad! Interesting that someone named Calvin is speculating about denying his true nature... I like Hobbes' first response - "How will you get to heaven if you like to be bad?" Not "if you do bad things," but "if you like to be bad". The path to heaven lies in changing one's true nature, not in denying it and "acting" good, but in honestly wanting to do good.
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Jason
Pluto
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Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Jun 22, 2011 12:16:09 GMT -4
I think the first identifiable characteristic I notice when meeting someone new is their gender, not their race.
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Jason
Pluto
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Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Jun 21, 2011 18:40:37 GMT -4
As to race, of course it's part of the issue. It doesn't take much examination of their literature to know that. Sample? I haven't seen anything to indicate it is. Not that I've perused a lot of "birther" literature. That would be my impression.
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Jason
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Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Jun 21, 2011 16:12:18 GMT -4
I don't think racism has anything to do with it, at least for most "birthers". It's just part of the general distrust of government (and the current government in particular) that any conspiracy theorist has.
As Twik pointed out, the best arguments against trusting Obama with a second term have all been provided by Obama himself. There's really no need to fish for more material from what his parents did or did not do.
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Jason
Pluto
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Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Jun 21, 2011 14:26:29 GMT -4
Hey, I'm no fan of Obama, but his birth certificate is legit.
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Jun 21, 2011 14:11:03 GMT -4
Someone the other day was going on about how he couldn't wait for Jesus to appear--though of course he wouldn't dream of predicting the Apocalypse, because the Bible says not to--and all I could think was, "But I like it here!" Yeah, it rains a lot--we have the same climate here in Olympia as there is in parts of New Zealand, in fact. But it's pretty, largely because of the rain. On a clear day, I can go to the top of Tumwater Hill and see two mountain ranges, or bits of them of course. Most of the city is hidden in trees. And sometimes, you can even see bald eagles swooping by, because at least one nesting pair lives in town. Heaven would have to be pretty good to beat this. Heaven will be here, but it will be an improvement in every way over what is already here, with none of the good lost.
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Mar 10, 2011 13:43:40 GMT -4
I think it's pretty obvious that the decision to partner with the Russians was made for political reasons first and foremost.
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Mar 7, 2011 13:55:55 GMT -4
I prefer the television show to the early films; I don't think their early style really suits itself well to a feature-length film. As time passed, some of the Python alums branched out and evolved a rather different style; I quite liked Brazil, for example. I find Brazil to be pretty depressing, really.
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