reynoldbot
Jupiter
A paper-white mask of evil.
Posts: 790
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Post by reynoldbot on Dec 17, 2007 17:10:22 GMT -4
Thanks very much guys. I appreciate the help (even when it probably won't do any good).
Oh, and Rene claims to have never known about the $10,000 offer. Of course, he knows now that Jarrah told him, and has still not collected :-)
Thanks for the very important info on the Mauldin book. I continuously asked for the context in which the quotes were being taken, but of course Jarrah and greenmagoos ignored me. Now it's just one more thing I can throw back at them.
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Post by JayUtah on Dec 17, 2007 18:23:29 GMT -4
James Oberg announced the $10,000 offer publicly as well as in private correspondence to Rene. Either one would suffice to create grounds upon which Rene could exchange evidence for a substantial check. The offer arose actually out of Rene's specific claim to Oberg, that he (Rene) had an edition of Carrying the Fire in which the alleged attribution appeared. Since it appears in no edition that anyone can produce, Oberg naturally provided Rene and inducement to make his unique edition available for inspection.
Mauldin's book is not written for laymen. You can't presume that some YouTube troll is reading it with the proper context and understanding. Especially if they're simply cherry-picking isolated quotes. The vast majority of Prospects has absolutely nothing to do with flying to the Moon, or with space travel in general; it discusses a specific, far-reaching class of missions with pertinent requirements.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Dec 17, 2007 20:17:10 GMT -4
Jay you could have just stated:
You can't presume that some YouTube troll is reading it
I bet all they did was read the quote on a website, I can guarantee they have never laid eyes on the book itself.
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reynoldbot
Jupiter
A paper-white mask of evil.
Posts: 790
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Post by reynoldbot on Dec 18, 2007 5:30:21 GMT -4
I most certainly agree. I was pretty suspicious when they started quoting from it.
Jarrah began ignoring me when I continued to ask for the text he claimed to have in his video. Now he is threatening to block my comments for "repeatedly making false accusations" against him (for once insinuating that he was a liar). Pretty hypocritical since I can count at least a dozen instances in half as many posts by him that accuse me, jay, svector, mark gray, and oberg of being liars and frauds. He's also gotten all cranky because of this thread here, and has threatened to block me for it (how that makes sense I will never know).
This has been an interesting experience, mostly because I have never had the opportunity to repeatedly ask only for evidence concerning one issue, while having the ability to completely ignore all other issues he attempts to bring up instead. Jarrah obviously has realized that he is backed into a corner and has nowhere to go. He of course has no evidence to show me, but instead of acting like a man and admitting his mistake, he chose to act like a coward.
Jarrah, I know you are reading this (you have made this fact quite clear), so I'd just like to say: Deep down somewhere in your brain, you know that the text you have neglected to show me does not exist. You know you have nothing to show me, or anyone for that matter concerning Collins' book. Your video is flawed. It makes an accusation that is not supported by any evidence. You know this. I know you do. Please rescind your accusation.
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Post by Count Zero on Dec 18, 2007 6:32:29 GMT -4
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Post by svector on Dec 18, 2007 13:05:05 GMT -4
Jarrah obviously has realized that he is backed into a corner and has nowhere to go. He of course has no evidence to show me, but instead of acting like a man and admitting his mistake, he chose to act like a coward. You've been wasting your time. All you had to do was ask Jay or me whether Jarrah White has any character or substance. We could've saved you a lot of time and aggravation. Still, I do like the idea that someone out there is causing him to increase his Excedrin usage. Keep up the good work.
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Post by JayUtah on Dec 18, 2007 13:50:43 GMT -4
Now you understand why I consider Jarrah White nothing more than noise.
No one for ten years has been able to produce for inspection any copy or edition of Michael Collins' Carrying the Fire in which it is stated that the black-background frontispiece intends to represent a photograph that is purported by NASA to be of Collins on his Gemini space flight. The only source of that alleged attribution is Ralph Rene's book. Rene has been asked repeatedly to provide evidence for it. He has been offered a substantial sum of money to allow a noted journalist to inspect it. Rene has simply retreated away from the challenge without retracting his claim. Those are the facts.
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Post by Ginnie on Dec 18, 2007 22:17:46 GMT -4
I don't understand why Jarrah White would even bother reading these threads. I joined this forum because of the intelligent discussions (like the new Hobbit movie!) and to learn about the Apollo missions and spaceflight in general. I can even say F1, or J2, or ASLEP or Saturn IB or V, or Van Allen belt and actually use the terms sort of, almost, sometimes correctly. ;D BTW: I'm still trying to understand the 'sunburst reflection on the visor' issue. I've come across so many pictures in books and on the web that totally kills the HB theory on this. I came across a good one in a book yesterday that I was going to scan, but maybe I could find it on the net.
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reynoldbot
Jupiter
A paper-white mask of evil.
Posts: 790
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Post by reynoldbot on Dec 19, 2007 6:19:07 GMT -4
It does make me sleep better at night. And to get a "keep up the good work" from one of the big dogs here is quite flattering.
I knew going in there was no point in trying to debate with him. I am just glad was able to throw in some good points to consider for the people that may watch his video and think he has all the answers.
That is why I chose that part to be my centerpiece to debate. I KNEW that if I just kept asking for that proof, something big would happen that would show the whole world what kind of a person Jarrah is. It worked beautifully. He dodged the issue, began ignoring me, and finally banned me when I wouldn't stop asking for it.
Rene claims to have never heard of the offer (which potentially covers his ass up until when Jarrah told him of it several months ago) and Jarrah defends this viciously. I provided Jarrah with the links to the letters and proof the offer was announced publicly, and still he predictably waves it away. He never bothered of course to answer me why Rene hasn't collected on the offer in the several months that we know for a fact that he has known about it.
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reynoldbot
Jupiter
A paper-white mask of evil.
Posts: 790
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Post by reynoldbot on Dec 19, 2007 6:38:07 GMT -4
Well, it appears that Jarrah has banned me. I have been unable to post comments (annoyingly only after I've already typed them all out) on any of his videos. In true weasely fashion, Jarrah posed more questions for me after banning me, and I predict he will soon accuse me of getting "scared off" when I of course do not answer them. I'll try again in a few hours.
Also, he promised to mention me among jay, svector, and oberg in his next video. Goodie! :-p I consider it flattering to be placed among such well-known debunkers, if not well-deserved.
He really thinks I should be banned from here for this thread. I told him to tell it to Lunar Orbit, who I am positive would ban me in a heartbeat if he felt I deserved it. What's your verdict, LO?
I really wanted to go out in a bang on youtube, and so I drafted a final comment in my head. Since I am unable to post in there, I thought I'd post it here:
You are no Bond, Mr. White. When faced with hard questions, you childishly insulted your rivals. When asked for evidence to support your claims, you cowardly ignored them. When provided proof where you claimed there was none, you covered your ears and pretended it didn't exist. And when you got backed into a wall and couldn't weasel your way out, you banned your only competitor. No, Mr White, you are not James Bond. You are a conspiracy theorist.
(I originally would have written "childish coward' instead of "conspiracy theorist" but I don't want to get banned)
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Post by dwight on Dec 19, 2007 7:31:17 GMT -4
You should be banned for asking what happened in a clear cut copyright matter? What part of the copyright warning did Jarrah have trouble understanding? There are at least four locations on SCF sets where it is clearly displayed!
I realise the US govt. does nothing but lie, but when they specifically tell me that copying a DVD is a criminal offence, I usually accept that, in that one instance at least, they're telling me the truth!
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Post by Czero 101 on Dec 19, 2007 8:15:44 GMT -4
Well, maybe Jarrah was figuring that no one would ever see the video clips he pirated... oops.. I mean.. "borrowed"... I mean, c'mon... no one really uses this new-fangled Internet thing these days, right? It's just a fad... like television... and cell phones... Cz
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Post by scooter on Dec 19, 2007 10:59:49 GMT -4
Theorist? More like a conspiracy monger...who loves his hair. A couple of us were going on with him at the LC forum a while back, he was developing a scenario where the CSM remained in Earth orbit while maintaining constant comm contact with ground stations. There were relay satellites, fake LMs and fake CSMs flying all over the place. When queried about keeping the LEO craft away from the prying eyes of curious skywatchers, he came in with his coup de grace...accellerating the CSM to 25000mph to shorten their ground exposure. I explained that this was pretty much what they did, except that, exactly per orbital mechanics would dictate, it flung the craft about 230,000 miles out on the opposite side of the orbit. He went back to work on his scenario, didn't hear much after that. He's shown that he, like his "grandfather", doesn't know much about what he argues. Jeesh, it just takes an interest and a willingness to learn something about the subject...hard to do I guess, when you already "know" everything. Stick to your Bond thing, Jarrah, it's what you're good at.
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Post by frenat on Dec 19, 2007 11:16:10 GMT -4
Then there was also his "polar" orbit that had the craft orbiting east west but staying parallel to the equator up by the arctic circle.
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Post by JayUtah on Dec 19, 2007 11:21:05 GMT -4
Elsewhere I summed up my impression of YouTube's role in conspiracism:
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