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Rex 84
Sept 2, 2005 13:55:27 GMT -4
Post by Dead Hoosiers on Sept 2, 2005 13:55:27 GMT -4
In an attempt to steer this thread back onto its original topic, does the current awful situation in New Orleans shed any light on the US Government's ability to round up masses of people against their will ? They're not doing a very good job of anything, are they? The next few days should reveal any plan that's in place. There's no reason why those people shouldn't have been rescued days ago. Even worse, why aren't they getting any food and water? Is the plan to let them die?
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Rex 84
Sept 2, 2005 14:55:26 GMT -4
Post by rocketdad on Sept 2, 2005 14:55:26 GMT -4
I think the plan is to freak out at the magnitude of the chaos and be hampered by the total lack of roads in many areas and complete collapse of the cellular network.
I think they also plan to ignore armchair quarterbacking and try their best to evacuate an entire city, which at this point is mostly populated by the poorest people with the least resources and the most pre-disaster anger.
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Rex 84
Sept 2, 2005 15:23:51 GMT -4
Post by rocketdad on Sept 2, 2005 15:23:51 GMT -4
And as for the government moving populations around for some paranoid reason (ours or theirs) my experience in the military was that our government is capable of amazing tasks, but they can't run a decent grocery store.
A tattoo parlor in my town has a sign up advertising UV ink, for black-light visible tattoos. I'm thinking of having the UPC for "1 pound frozen peas" put on my forehead.
Fear is just a response to the unknown.
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Rex 84
Sept 3, 2005 17:59:34 GMT -4
Post by LunarOrbit on Sept 3, 2005 17:59:34 GMT -4
You have to wonder if it is conspiracy theories like this one that have lead some victims of hurricane Katrina to shoot at helicopters that were sent to rescue them. How many people have been lead to believe that the "big evil government" is only there to harm them rather than help them?
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Rex 84
Sept 5, 2005 13:34:46 GMT -4
Post by Dead Hoosiers on Sept 5, 2005 13:34:46 GMT -4
You have to wonder if it is conspiracy theories like this one that have lead some victims of hurricane Katrina to shoot at helicopters that were sent to rescue them. How many people have been lead to believe that the "big evil government" is only there to harm them rather than help them? These camps aren't a theory. They're fact. Can you think of some benign use for them? There are some people who will always exploit a bad situation--no conspiracy theory needed. There is no excuse for the several day delay in giving aid to the citizens of NO. Many civilian men tried to enter the city within 48 hours to render assistance and deliver supplies. They were turned back by the National Guard. The relief agencies were there at the beginning and were denied entry to the city (even BEFORE the trouble started). The average citizen has bigger balls than our military personnel. For that matter, so do I and I don't have any at all. Seriously, I don't think the troops lacked courage--I think they were following orders which they were too brainwashed to understand--that the people were to be starved and brought to the point of insurrection, thus providing the government an excuse to treat the entire population of NO like criminals. Isn't it interesting that Halliburton got the clean-up job? Humph!
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Rex 84
Sept 5, 2005 13:53:22 GMT -4
Post by Dead Hoosiers on Sept 5, 2005 13:53:22 GMT -4
. ... How do you know you're not headed for the hell of some other religion? (Or more than one?) How do I know? In the final analysis, it all depends on the person/character of Jesus Christ. Does He deliver what He promised insofar as the here and now is concerned? The answer is yes. Then there is the integrity of the eyewitness accounts. There is no other religious figure in the world who did what Jesus did, had His wisdom, or who did anything for me or who can even hear me. They're all dead in their graves. If they can't even raise themselves from the dead, how are they going to punish me when I belong to Someone who is so much more powerful than they and promises that I will be with Him forever? Finally, inspect the fruit of some of those religions.
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Rex 84
Sept 5, 2005 14:41:48 GMT -4
Post by LunarOrbit on Sept 5, 2005 14:41:48 GMT -4
These camps aren't a theory. They're fact. Can you think of some benign use for them? If the camps were a fact they wouldn't be cramming thousands of people into baseball stadiums. But yes, I can imagine benign reasons for "tent cities". As Katrina has demonstrated, a natural disaster can create an entire city of homeless people. They can't sleep on astro-turf forever, and it takes time to provide new homes for all those people, so where do you put them? Do you just let them fend for themselves? How are the victims of Katrina being exploited? The government is trying to help them at great expense... the government isn't profiting from this. I won't get into whether or not the government is doing a good job with the relief effort. It is an enormous undertaking that even the biggest military in the world is going to have a hard time with. How do you evacuate tens of thousands of people in buses that each hold 40 people? How do you get those buses to the people when many of the roads are flooded or destroyed? How do you rescue thousands of people from roof tops with helicopters that must lift them one at a time at the end of a cable? And once you have rescued the victims where do you take them? Maybe the government could do a better job but I'm not the one to tell them how. Are you? Sorry, but that's BS. No one is forced to stay in the Astrodome (or where ever they are evacuated to). If they have family elsewhere that can take them in they can leave.
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Al Johnston
"Cheer up!" they said, "It could be worse!" So I did, and it was.
Posts: 1,453
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Rex 84
Sept 5, 2005 15:54:36 GMT -4
Post by Al Johnston on Sept 5, 2005 15:54:36 GMT -4
Do you just let them fend for themselves? Of course: anything else would be communism, goddammit! ;D
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Rex 84
Sept 5, 2005 19:42:32 GMT -4
Post by Dead Hoosiers on Sept 5, 2005 19:42:32 GMT -4
Reply to LunarOrbit:
When I started this thread I said that people who were interested should Google "Rex 84." There's a wide selection of information. The camps exist--barbed wire and everything. Whether or not the camps exist isn't a debatable topic. It's a fact.
I don't think the public is ready to see hurricane victims behind barbed wire yet, but the day will come. Whether the American people will be herded in there because they're outgunned by their own government or because the multitudes have been persuaded that there are hundreds of thousands of people who need "final solution" treatment is anyone's guess.
I think tent cities are a good idea. I think permitting those who still have homes return to them is an even better idea.
As for exploitation, I was referring to the murderers, rapists and looters who took advantage of the situation. Take note that the government is using our money since they don't have any of their own, so they can't take any credit for how much they're spending.
If we the people aren't the ones to tell the government, our paid servants, how to do their jobs, then who is? You bet I'm telling them, and so are a lot of others. We're mad as fire over the incompetence and delay. You'd better figure out who's supposed to be running this country before it's too late. Government criminals should be prosecuted, just like everyone else. Government incompetents should be fired, just like everyone else. We still have the power to do this if only enough people would wake up and hold their elected officials accountable for how they do their jobs. But they won't.
They are being treated like criminals--evacuated at gunpoint, frisked before being rescued--even little children. Do you even read the news?
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Rex 84
Sept 5, 2005 20:19:09 GMT -4
Post by LunarOrbit on Sept 5, 2005 20:19:09 GMT -4
When I started this thread I said that people who were interested should Google "Rex 84." There's a wide selection of information. The camps exist--barbed wire and everything. Whether or not the camps exist isn't a debatable topic. It's a fact. Show me a picture of one of these alleged camps. Paranoia. I agree that letting people return to their homes is the ultimate goal. But what is the point in sending people to homes that don't have electricity, safe plumbing, or food? What is the point of letting people live in an area with no jobs? What is the point in letting people return to a disaster area before it has been repaired? Also, even though their homes might still be standing it doesn't mean they are safe to live in. Homes that have been flooded are dangerous breeding grounds for all sorts of deadly molds that need to be professionally cleaned. You've got things so backwards in your head. You want to "help" the victims of the hurricane by completely abandoning them. You don't want the government to help them "because the government is evil". And you blame the government for that? How about you blame the people who turned to anarchy the minute law and order fell apart? Blame the rapists and murderers, not the government. I'm all for hearing the opinions of the citizens about how things like this should be handled... but that doesn't mean they know what the best solution is. In a crisis I would trust my life in the hands of professionals (police, fire dept., military, etc.) whose jobs are to save lives more than I would someone who sits at a desk all day. I'm sure there is more than a little bit of exaggeration there. But you listed a number of horrible crimes that are occuring in New Orleans... rapes, murders, etc. Is it not wise to have some kind of law enforcement there to try to restore order? Some people were shooting at the people who were sent to rescue them, but you're saying that the rescuers should be unarmed.
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Rex 84
Sept 5, 2005 20:39:47 GMT -4
Post by Dead Hoosiers on Sept 5, 2005 20:39:47 GMT -4
Is there something wrong with your brain LunarOrbit? You still haven't read up on Rex 84. What you say you think I'm saying isn't what I'm saying. My apologies if English isn't your mother tongue.
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Rex 84
Sept 5, 2005 21:00:39 GMT -4
Post by twinstead on Sept 5, 2005 21:00:39 GMT -4
Is there something wrong with your brain LunarOrbit? You still haven't read up on Rex 84. What you say you think I'm saying isn't what I'm saying. My apologies if English isn't your mother tongue. I for one know what you are saying because it's in this thread for everyone to see. Your ideas are typically irrationally paranoid--almost flawlessly textbook. Throw in a small dose of religious extremism, and you have a recipe for some serious woo woo. I mean really, If you can seriously suggest English isn't LunarOrbit's mother tongue, then I would submit that rational isn't your 'mother' way of thinking.
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Rex 84
Sept 5, 2005 21:02:24 GMT -4
Post by ktesibios on Sept 5, 2005 21:02:24 GMT -4
When I started this thread I said that people who were interested should Google "Rex 84." There's a wide selection of information. The camps exist--barbed wire and everything. Whether or not the camps exist isn't a debatable topic. It's a fact. Show me a picture of one of these alleged camps. umm, L.O.- You might not be aware that pictures of damned near anything with a barbed wire fence on gummint land have turned up on conspiracist Web sites as photos of "the NWO's concentration camps". You can also find plenty of photos of the 107,000 white boxcars with built-in shackles which conspiracist Gospel holds were built to haul victims to these camps. I've had a bit of fun tracing some of these down to the railfan sites from which they were plagiarized. (It turns out that railroad buffs who like to photograph trains often don't take kindly to having their work lifted, without attribution, for such purposes. Surprise, surprise.) Now we might just find ourselves awash in jpegs from the American Patriot Friends Network or suchlike, and have to go through all the tedium of tracing and debunking them for the nth time. "Be careful what you ask for- you might just wind up with a ton of crummy ersatz and a lot of shovel work to do" P.S. I seem to be having trouble doing nested quotes.
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Rex 84
Sept 5, 2005 22:11:30 GMT -4
Post by Dead Hoosiers on Sept 5, 2005 22:11:30 GMT -4
Everyone wants to comment...no one wants to know what he's talking about. Again, Rex 84 is not a conspiracy theory--railroad boxcars are...for now.
So for those of you who can't be bothered to read the facts:
Rex 84 From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Rex 84, short for Readiness Exercise 1984, was a plan by the United States federal government to accommodate the detention of large numbers of American citizens during times of emergency.
Through Rex-84 an undisclosed number of concentration camps were set in operation throughout the United States, for internment of dissidents and others potentially harmful to the state.
Existence of the Rex 84 plan was first revealed during the Iran-Contra Hearings in 1987, and subsequently reported by the Miami Herald on July 5, 1987.
If you go to the Wikipedia website you can click on the links in the story.
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Rex 84
Sept 5, 2005 22:48:12 GMT -4
Post by JayUtah on Sept 5, 2005 22:48:12 GMT -4
The Wikipedia article is a "stub", not to be considered authoritative.
The links in the article are not a vote of confidence. One is to abovetopsecret.com, a pretty notorious conspiracy theory site. The "evidence" is simply some people who visited segregated property in secluded areas, only to be met by people who wanted to know what they were doing there. Post-9/11, this doesn't seem to be a bad policy. There was no evidence given that these sites were "prison camps."
The other link is to 100777.com, yet another conspiracy theory site. The simply refer us to abovetopsecret.com. One could hardly find a denser spewage of conspiracist jargon and buzzwords than these articles. What sort of credibility am I supposed to give a site that promises me, "Defeat the NWO and be a millionnaire!"?
The allegations in the source article don't even match the conspiracy claims. Rex 84 is supposed to be in case of mass numbers of illegal immigrants to the U.S. Yet somehow the claims are warped into saying they're for mass detention of U.S. citizens. Where did that connection come from? Pure supposition, apparently.
And the photos and visits to various sites, either unmarked or clearly marked something else, are put forward without any evidence as invariably Rex 84 sites.
I didn't just fall off the turnip truck. You're telling me about wild speculation from people who don't have a good track record of getting the facts right.
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