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Rex 84
Sept 5, 2005 22:48:56 GMT -4
Post by rocketdad on Sept 5, 2005 22:48:56 GMT -4
I'm interested in learing more about the subject of these camps. Do you have any references besides wikipedia and paranoia websites? I have a very short tolerance for goofy information, but I am willing to read deeper into things that have a high signal-to-noise ratio.
I don't disbelieve that there was an emergency plan drafted up, and I've seen government structures built to absurd standards, just because the money flows in and out without questions. (I can tell you about a "bike shed" in the UK with walls 18" thick, but that was the Brits charging the Yanks for extra work, not some nefarious secret)
But really, is wikipedea your best source for this?
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Rex 84
Sept 5, 2005 22:59:05 GMT -4
Post by PeterB on Sept 5, 2005 22:59:05 GMT -4
Dead Hoosiers said: “These camps aren't a theory. They're fact. Can you think of some benign use for them?”
Hang on. Where are these camps located? Can we look them up on Google Earth?
“There are some people who will always exploit a bad situation--no conspiracy theory needed.”
Agreed.
“There is no excuse for the several day delay in giving aid to the citizens of NO.”
Agreed. I suspect, however, that there were a lot of local, state and federal officials who simply grossly underestimated the scale of the disaster.
“Many civilian men tried to enter the city within 48 hours to render assistance and deliver supplies. They were turned back by the National Guard. The relief agencies were there at the beginning and were denied entry to the city (even BEFORE the trouble started).”
That doesn’t surprise me. The big story here in Australia was that Australian consular officials were denied entry to New Orleans, even though they were searching for Australian nationals. Bizarrely, Australian media were able to enter the city, and if one group is to be believed, actually located a group of Australian tourists and secured transport for them. My own suspicion is that the reporter was inflating his network’s role in the affair.
Still, it points to a whole lot of shoddy management.
“The average citizen has bigger balls than our military personnel. For that matter, so do I and I don't have any at all.”
Big call. There are people with little initiative in all areas of life.
“Seriously, I don't think the troops lacked courage--I think they were following orders which they were too brainwashed to understand--that the people were to be starved and brought to the point of insurrection, thus providing the government an excuse to treat the entire population of NO like criminals.”
What? Much of the “entire population of NO” evacuated themselves. They sure aren’t being treated as criminals.
Put it this way – do you accept that it’s at least possible that whole business is the result of incompetence rather than malice?
“Isn't it interesting that Halliburton got the clean-up job? Humph!”
They have? The whole job? Even though it’s already started?
“I don't think the public is ready to see hurricane victims behind barbed wire yet, but the day will come.”
Do you have any evidence apart from conspiracy sites? Stuff like this wouldn’t be known to only conspiracy theorists – information will leak out to other groups, such as the media. And before you tar the media with the same brush as the government, there are plenty in the media who are critical of the government. Or is this all part of the conspiracy too?
You see, DH, the problem with these sorts of theories is that even evidence to contrary can be interpreted as evidence in favour. By these sorts of processes, no contrary evidence can conceivably exist.
“Whether the American people will be herded in there because they're outgunned by their own government or because the multitudes have been persuaded that there are hundreds of thousands of people who need "final solution" treatment is anyone's guess.”
Your theories grow more outlandish sentence by sentence. Once again, do you have the slightest skerrick of evidence that any group *whatsoever* is about to be executed en masse in the USA? Just which group do you have in mind? What is the campaign which has been waged in the preceding months or years to convince everyone else in the USA that this group of people should be executed? Give us some examples.
“I think tent cities are a good idea. I think permitting those who still have homes return to them is an even better idea.”
How are these people going to live in their homes when they’re inundated, have no water, sewerage or electricity, there are no shops for them to buy food or fuel, and nowhere for them to work? I don’t know what a viable medium-term solution is, but I suspect that a lot of people are going to give up and set up a new life elsewhere. Others may end up living with generous family, friends or strangers for a while. But what’s going to happen to people who can’t take advantage of these opportunities?
“As for exploitation, I was referring to the murderers, rapists and looters who took advantage of the situation. Take note that the government is using our money since they don't have any of their own, so they can't take any credit for how much they're spending.”
Well, the alternative would be to spend it on something else, like a grand new public building in Washington. I dare say a lot of people are happy they’re spending it on buying supplies to keep homeless NOers alive.
“If we the people aren't the ones to tell the government, our paid servants, how to do their jobs, then who is? You bet I'm telling them, and so are a lot of others.”
Well, the voters have the right to tell the government what strategic direction it should take. But the experts in the relevant fields are the people who should be telling them how to do those things. For example, my vote for one party or another tells the politicians whether I want troops to stay in Iraq or to come home. But assuming I vote for them staying, it’s up to the soldiers to work out how they’re going to be used most effectively while they’re there.
“We're mad as fire over the incompetence and delay. You'd better figure out who's supposed to be running this country before it's too late. Government criminals should be prosecuted, just like everyone else. Government imcompetents should be fired, just like everyone else. We still have the power to do this if only enough people would wake up and hold their elected officials accountable for how they do their jobs. But they won't.”
Well, I can’t argue with that. That’s why Royal Commissions are so darn useful in Commonwealth countries. Many have been set up largely on the basis of community agitation.
But there are a number of differences between democracy in the USA and in, say, Australia. For example, here in Australia, voting is compulsory. This means politicians have to campaign in a very different way. And people can’t complain that the pollies can ignore them. But on the other side of the coin, only pollies are elected. Judges, public defenders and prosecutors, police officers and the like are all appointed by the government or the department which employs them. This has resulted in some claims that judges are out of touch with community standards, but suggests that judges can afford to be impartial.
“They are being trreated like criminals--evacuated at gunpoint, frisked before being rescued--even little children. Do you even read the news?”
I saw the footage of a kid being frisked. But if you’re going to frisk *only* adults, how long do you think it would take a criminal with a gun to offer a kid some money to keep his pistol safe?
There’s breaches of civil liberties, and there’s naivete.
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Rex 84
Sept 6, 2005 2:05:13 GMT -4
Post by Dead Hoosiers on Sept 6, 2005 2:05:13 GMT -4
PeterB - I don't know what google earth is??? Go ahead and see what you come up with. I just did a regular google search on "rex 84" and found quite a bit of information. There are photos of the one in Palmdale, CA. I'd heard about these camps for years, but thought they were just a conspiracy theory, but it turned out to be true. The Palmdale camp is only about 50 miles from me.
It would be more comfortable to believe that mismanagement was the only reason for the delay and deaths, but considering resident reports of them having restored their power in some sections of New Orleans only to have the feds disconnect it rule that out in my mind. The citizens are now guarding their power source from the feds. That's only one sinister report out of many. The help was there, outside New Orleans almost immediately. They just didn't go in for several days. Absolutely unbelievable. People didn't get violent right away. It took a couple of days. I don't know what kind of coverage you're getting there, but it's a national disgrace and our news media is laboring to minimize the damage to the responsible parties. But yeah. Mismanagement was a factor.
I don't know why you think I'm referring to the self-evacuees as the target of military abuse--they never had any contact with the military. It was the poor, sick, and elderly who were unable to evacuate and naturally it's them I'm talking about.
What we have here in the States is a representative republic as opposed to a democracy. We elect local men and women to go to (a) our state capitol to represent our state interests; and (b) our nation's capitol to lobby for our national interests. Their job is to represent the views and opinions of the people who put them in office in making laws and policy. They're not there to promote their personal agendas or to curry party favor, although nearly all of them do it. It's long past time to rein them in.
I'm not suggesting that people whose homes were demolished or under 6 feet of water should return and I doubt that they want to, especially when they probably no longer have employment. But even on the news I see a lot of homes that are relatively unscathed. I don't know the numbers yet. Don't you think that if a person can take care of himself without government assistance he should be allowed to do so without interference? Neither your country nor mine was settled by sissies.
I believe people will end up in camps because the Bible says that those who refuse to take the mark of the beast will be killed. While scripture doesn't specifically say people will be put in camps, it's a logical conclusion. See? No need for conspiracy theories to come into this at all though there's nothing disreputable about believing there's conspiracies going on. When you see government corruption, violation of oaths and the constitution continually going on; when you see the masses being more and more enslaved by taxes and unjust laws and loss of liberty, an intelligent person would start to wonder. Some people will be satisfied with the answer the powers that be give them. Others, like myself, don't buy their BS. We're then denigrated as crazy conspiracy theorists even though we might have proof positive of what's going on. Then the ignorant sheeple jump on the bandwagon and say "yeah, you crazy conspiracy theorists. The government's doing their best. Everybody makes mistakes. You're unpatriotic and paranoid and you're part of the problem." Then they demand to give up their rights in order to be taken care of and approved of by authority figures. The problem is that they're giving up my rights as well. A government looking to amass more power really likes that kind of thinking. Most people are just plain scared of real freedom, though they like to talk about it and think they are (free).
Let's just stay tuned. Wanna bet there's a huge government seizure of private property?
Re Halliburton...I got my facts wrong. The Navy hired them to do some cleanup and that's all....for now.
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Rex 84
Sept 6, 2005 3:09:44 GMT -4
Post by PeterB on Sept 6, 2005 3:09:44 GMT -4
Dead Hoosiers said: “PeterB - I don't know what google earth is?”
Google Earth is a web-site (by that name) with aerial photos of the Earth at varying degrees of resolution. You can seek out the locations of these camps for yourself and see what’s there. The photos are of varying age (up to a couple of years), but in the highest resolution, I could easily see the pool in my back yard.
“It would be more comfortable to believe that mismanagement was the only reason for the delay and deaths, but considering resident reports of them having restored their power in some sections of New Orleans only to have the feds disconnect it rule that out in my mind. The citizens are now guarding their power source from the feds. That's only one sinister report out of many.”
Okay, that’s curious, but I haven’t heard that anywhere. Where did you hear it? But couldn’t there be dangers in reconnecting power lines if any of the lines in the grid are in water?
“The help was there, outside New Orleans almost immediately. They just didn't go in for several days. Absolutely unbelievable.”
I also didn’t hear that. Or, more to the point, I got the impression that the help assembled slowly. Any delay may well have been to do with decisions on how to use the available people.
“People didn't get violent right away. It took a couple of days. I don't know what kind of coverage you're getting there, but it's a national disgrace and our news media is laboring to minimize the damage to the responsible parties. But yeah. Mismanagement was a factor.”
Well, here there’s no need to defend American government officials (and making jokes at the expense of Americans is almost a national past time here). I heard the radio interview (on NPR actually) of the NO mayor sounding off at the state and federal authorities. I would’ve thought that would have been widely reported in the USA, and a good sign of a bit of infighting and blame-shifting.
“I don't know why you think I'm referring to the self-evacuees as the target of military abuse--they never had any contact with the military. It was the poor, sick, and elderly who were unable to evacuate and naturally it's them I'm talking about.”
Okay.
“They're not there to promote their personal agendas or to curry party favor, although nearly all of them do it. It's long past time to rein them in.”
:-) It’s the same for us. Elected politicians are the same everywhere, and have been since the days of the Athenian democracy in the 5th century BC.
“I see a lot of homes that are relatively unscathed. I don't know the numbers yet. Don't you think that if a person can take care of himself without government assistance he should be allowed to do so without interference?”
All the images I’ve seen show houses surrounded by water right up to their walls. To me they’d be uninhabitable. I have no problem with people being let back in to salvage what they can, but the houses will be dangerous, and I wouldn’t want to have to evacuate more injured people. The same thing happened with the Canberra bushfire back in 2003 – over 500 houses were destroyed or severely damaged. Residents were allowed back under strict supervision to retrieve what they could, but then the places had to be demolished. I dare say a lot of people lost a few potentially retrievable possessions because it was too dangerous to let them back in.
“I believe people will end up in camps because the Bible says that those who refuse to take the mark of the beast will be killed. While scripture doesn't specifically say people will be put in camps, it's a logical conclusion. See? No need for conspiracy theories to come into this at all though there's nothing disreputable about believing there's conspiracies going on. When you see government corruption, violation of oaths and the constitution continually going on; when you see the masses being more and more enslaved by taxes and unjust laws and loss of liberty, an intelligent person would start to wonder.”
What’s this about more taxes? I understand that tax rates in the USA are at an all-time low since the introduction of income tax.
“Then the ignorant sheeple jump on the bandwagon and say "yeah, you crazy conspiracy theorists. The government's doing their best. Everybody makes mistakes. You're unpatriotic and paranoid and you're part of the problem." Then they demand to give up their rights in order to be taken care of and approved of by authority figures. The problem is that they're giving up my rights as well. A government looking to amass more power really likes that kind of thinking. Most people are just plain scared of real freedom, though they like to talk about it and think they are (free).”
Well, this ignorant sheeple is aware of problems in the world he lives in. I don’t like the changes to the law in Australia to counter terrorism, as I think the current criminal laws are good enough. However, having said that, I note that the Government has used the powers once, and the investigation came to nothing.
But I can’t see the connection between that and the response to Hurricane Katrina.
“Let's just stay tuned. Wanna bet there's a huge government seizure of private property?”
Roughly when and roughly how much? And how much compensation do you think they’ll offer? Remember, you’ve made a number of predictions in the past which have turned out to be wrong. In its current form, your prediction is way too broad.
What happens if a Congressional committee hears that NO isn’t a viable city, and the best thing to do is to abandon it and help the original swamp regenerate by declaring the whole area a National Park. Everyone agrees, and Congress provides land owners and tenants compensation equivalent to the pre-Katrina value of their land and property. Would that be acceptable?
“Re Halliburton...I got my facts wrong. The Navy hired them to do some cleanup and that's all....for now.”
Okay, we make mistakes, and once again I’m happy that you’re willing to admit you were wrong. But why do you have to sour it by assuming that the only reason Haliburton isn’t there now is because they’ll be there some time in the future?
Incidentally, in your previous post, you said: “Whether the American people will be herded in there because they're outgunned by their own government or because the multitudes have been persuaded that there are hundreds of thousands of people who need "final solution" treatment is anyone's guess.”
I responded: “Once again, do you have the slightest skerrick of evidence that any group *whatsoever* is about to be executed en masse in the USA? Just which group do you have in mind? What is the campaign which has been waged in the preceding months or years to convince everyone else in the USA that this group of people should be executed? Give us some examples.”
Can you respond, please.
Cheers
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Rex 84
Sept 6, 2005 9:40:00 GMT -4
Post by echnaton on Sept 6, 2005 9:40:00 GMT -4
People didn't get violent right away. It took a couple of days. NO is known as a haven for junkies and the Mayor of NO is attributing this to the loss of the drug supply to the area. Junkies in need of a fix will do almost anything. Other possible explanations include just hungry and tired people who were prone to violence before the event. It only takes one person to shoot at a helicopter and it makes the news. It is not necessarily a sign of any broad problem or reflective of the general situation on the ground.
While the criticisms of FEMA and Louisiana officials have some validity, I think the lesson here is that bureaucracies will never be adequately prepared to do everything that could possibly be done immediately. Moreover, the only way for them to be able to do so, as you seem to think they should, is that they have a large military like organization ready to go at a moments notice. This appears to be what you don’t want them to do.
In the past several years, FEMA has concentrated on terrorist threats rather than on natural disasters. Like most bureaucracies, they are fighting the last war. What do you want to bet that their focus will shift back towards hurricane relief? Then when they are called on next, there will be disorganization for several days until they get it together. Temporary chaos is expected in chaotic situations.
The moral of this whole tragedy is that if you rely on the government exclusively for your safety, you do so at your own peril.
As far as you “REX 84 camps” go, like rocketdad, I have a low tolerance for conspiracy sites. There is a poor signal to noise ratio and I have little time for such nonsense. But I am certainly open to your idea. Since you seem to be knowledgeable about these facilities, tell us where they are. Most of the NO evacuees have been brought to Houston, and housed in the Astrodome and two huge convention facilities here. If some have been evacuated to these camps, they must be close to NO. Where are they? Identifying a camp as being within fifty miles from where you live covers a rather broad area. Can you be more specific? East Texas and Western LA have large forested areas much of which is Federal lands. Are there any there? Where? I have hiked and canoed the Southeast Texas woods all my life and have never scene anything remotely suspicious. If you could pin point some in Southeast Texas I would be willing to go inspect them.
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Rex 84
Sept 6, 2005 12:06:50 GMT -4
Post by ktesibios on Sept 6, 2005 12:06:50 GMT -4
It would be more comfortable to believe that mismanagement was the only reason for the delay and deaths, but considering resident reports of them having restored their power in some sections of New Orleans only to have the feds disconnect it rule that out in my mind. The citizens are now guarding their power source from the feds. . Do you have any evidence from a credible source for this? If you want to follow the progress of electric power restoration, the logical source to go to is the people who are actually doing the work- the electric company: www.entergy.com/content/corp/EmergencyCtr/la_detail_content.aspwww.entergy.com/corp/default3.aspwww.entergy.com/Corp/newsroom/newsRelease.aspIf the power in a neighborhood came on and then went off again, what is the evidence to support laying the blame on the "feds"? How have you ruled out the likelier possibility of technical reasons, for example, that having successfully energized a feeder line, the power company had to shut it off again to permit repair work in the area it serves to go forward, or that the line tripped out again because a new fault developed? Have you or your sources tested or even considered non-conspiracy hypotheses, or just assumed that it must be the Evil Ones at work? If you're getting your information from the professional conspiracy-mongers, consider this report from Aaron Broussard, president of Jefferson parish, and how easily it could be embroidered into a claim that "The citizens are now guarding their power source from the feds". www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9179790/I'm more inclined to think "@#$%-up" than "deliberate evil" for this reason- if the feds really wanted to isolate the Jefferson parish authorities, there are ways of cutting those lines far enough upstream that the sheriff would neither be able to do anything about it nor know who or what was responsible. There's a takeoff on Arthur C. Clarke making the rounds in the wake of Katrina: "any sufficiently advanced incompetence is impossible to distinguish from malice", which does have the ring of truth. There seems to be enough evidence of confusion and bureacratic C.F.ing to support the proposition that our machinery for disaster managment will need a thoroughgoing, expertly-informed analysis and overhaul. Insisting on force-fitting the evidence into a stale old paranoid vision isn't going to advance that process a bit. It is, however, excellent practice in case the Olympics ever add the conclusion-jump as an event.
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Rex 84
Sept 6, 2005 12:26:57 GMT -4
Post by Bbabu on Sept 6, 2005 12:26:57 GMT -4
I live in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, and I can tell you for a fact that the majority of the 10,000 plus people that have been relocated to Dallas - are using the Convention Center, Reunion Arena, and other shelter areas (churches, private homes) as a base for them to reclaim their lives.
They are NOT forced to stay in the shelters - the Dallas Independent School District (DISD) even had buses down at the main shelter points at 9am to pick up kids and get them enrolled.
All of this is being done, with zero to little help from the Federal Government at this time. The same stories are playing out in San Antonio and Houston.
No big bad Rex 84 evil gubmint putting the refugees behind razor wire - just a bunch of people helping out their fellow man in time of need... something that this country excells in...
I do believe there was a breakdown in response to this crisis, but it's a breakdown on all levels - state, local, federal - and individuals.
I absolutely love how the evil PTB have been gearing up for decades to silence the freedoms around the world, but have nothing to show for it. Between 9/11, the terrorist battles and the latest natural disasters, you would think that we'd all be living in camps with UPC marks tatooed across our foreheads - but yet... nothing.
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Rex 84
Sept 6, 2005 13:08:54 GMT -4
Post by rocketdad on Sept 6, 2005 13:08:54 GMT -4
I would like to respond to a fragment of an earlier post by Dead Hoosiers:
"Don't you think that if a person can take care of himself without government assistance he should be allowed to do so without interference? Neither your country nor mine was settled by sissies."
A long time ago, somebody in every familiy knew how to do all the basic survival stuff, like trapping rabbits, skinning deer, finding roots and berries.... Now, we live in a modern industialized civilization, and I know people who can barely tolerate chicken with bones. This is the one point in Dr. Kaczynski's "manifesto" that is a fact: we are DEPENDENT, like an addict, on modern industrial civilization, and the vast majority of urbanites are unable to "fend for themselves," especially in a demolished urban environment. What are the holdouts going to live on -- dog meat and lawngrass? These people don't even know how to dispose of human feces anymore. What source of fresh potable water do they have?
As for the government having plans to deal with large numbers of prisoners, I can accept the possibility that at some time they spent a bit of money on extra fence for certain areas of land. Remember, however, that we also spent alarming amounts of money on nuclear missles and the silos to keep them in. That doesn't mean that now, many cycles of the political back-and-forth game later, the current administration has plans to nuke the commies.
Try to remember that the Federal government is not one big homogenous entity that has had 200 years of planning and organizational development. Every 4 or 8 years a new president comes in and tosses out as many mid-level bureaucrats from the previos asministration as they can.
Fear is a response to the unknown. If you fear "Government", run for city council and try to get a parking garage approved.
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Rex 84
Sept 6, 2005 14:39:42 GMT -4
Post by Dead Hoosiers on Sept 6, 2005 14:39:42 GMT -4
I posted this Rex 84 thread before the damage from hurricane Katrina was known, just as a topic of interest. At no time have I suggested that any hurricane victims were taken to any of these camps or that there was any thought by anyone of taking them there. Please read my posts more carefully before responding. It would save me a lot of time in correcting misunderstandings. Let me state that a couple of the sites I'm about to post links to are considered to be "conspiracy" sites (but not all). Try to suspend your prejudices for a few minutes and actually pay attention to what you are reading and what the sources are. There are eyewitness accounts, small town paper accounts, and, most importantly, the Times-Picayune accounts. I will not respond to any jeering. If you can't figure out what is or may be a legitimate news source from total fantasy, I have no time for you. If you have information contradicting these reports, please post them. I already have access to and read credible (i.e. government controlled) news sources. I do not dismiss all the information from the major news stations but I'm primarily interested in the news that isn't being reported by the major media, especially from independent, unofficial sources. (Note: this is a post in progress and I'm at work--give me some time to complete it since there were so many responses!) Thanks. peterb said: What happens if a Congressional committee hears that NO isn’t a viable city, and the best thing to do is to abandon it and help the original swamp regenerate by declaring the whole area a National Park. Everyone agrees, and Congress provides land owners and tenants compensation equivalent to the pre-Katrina value of their land and property. Would that be acceptable?Verrrry interesting. Check out these links on that thought. Warning: this stuff is conspiracy THEORY, but interesting nonetheless. That it's a theory does not necessarily mean it's false or impossible. cuttingedge.org/news/n1368.cfm; this one is especially interesting: cuttingedge.org/news/n1862.cfm; and cuttingedge.org/news/n1953.cfm. Is it okay with me? NO NO NO. In the short term it seems to be a good idea because of the compensation, but long term, if people were to be relocated each time there's a devatating event, we'll eventually be corralled and controlled into a corner. Most of my information has come from these sites and the links within them. total411.info/www.worldnetdaily.comwww.infowars.competerb, making predictions isn't my thing. Can you tell me what I've predicted in the past?
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Rex 84
Sept 6, 2005 15:52:38 GMT -4
Post by Bbabu on Sept 6, 2005 15:52:38 GMT -4
The Illuminati steering hurricanes into populated areas.
One word: fnord.
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Rex 84
Sept 6, 2005 16:50:20 GMT -4
Post by echnaton on Sept 6, 2005 16:50:20 GMT -4
Hurricane Isabel originally showed a Masonic Pentagram in the middle of her eye for a very good reason: this storm has devastated an area targeted for "de-population" so that the land can go back to the "wild", i.e., "Re-Wilding". Using Weather Modification tools, the Illuminati is gradually establishing the precedent that certain areas of the land cannot be inhabited. This is precisely the Bart Sibrel that I mean what I say I have little time for conspiracy theorist and their web sites. There are vast unproven assumption that underling this tripe and I don’t have the patients of Jay to sift though this. Don’t post this stuff as a argument for your REX 84 fantasies, tell use where they are. If they are known to exist then someone must know where the are. I want to go look at one. I even have a four day holiday next month and plan to go camping somewhere in Texas. It is a big state there must be some here.
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Rex 84
Sept 6, 2005 17:07:02 GMT -4
Post by Dead Hoosiers on Sept 6, 2005 17:07:02 GMT -4
echnaton quote: "Don’t post this stuff as a argument for your REX 84 fantasies, tell use where they are. If they are known to exist then someone must know where the are. I want to go look at one. I even have a four day holiday next month and plan to go camping somewhere in Texas. It is a big state there must be some here."Here's a list of where they're supposed to be. Scroll down past the Executive Orders. BTW, if you'd been paying attention you'd know that Rex 84 isn't a fantasy. How about some of you people doing a little digging on your own, or at least reading the links or doing a website search? Don't post YOUR stuff unless you read up first. Do send pictures...if you come back, that is. www.mindfully.org/Reform/2004/FEMA-Concentration-Camps3sep04.htm
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Rex 84
Sept 6, 2005 19:37:27 GMT -4
Post by frenat on Sept 6, 2005 19:37:27 GMT -4
At least two on that list I know are bunk.
Maxwell AFB in Alabama does have a federal (not civilian) prison on it but contrary to their small inmate population, it is nearly full. Some of the inmates do janitorial work around the base.
Eglin AFB in Florida is large but there aren't any camps on the base. Much of it is used for munitions testing. Just a couple years ago they tested the MOAB there. Something that large produces one heck of a shockwave and you don't want to do it too close to the public. You can check the base out on Google Earth and verify that there are no prison camps there.
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Rex 84
Sept 6, 2005 19:56:35 GMT -4
Post by JayUtah on Sept 6, 2005 19:56:35 GMT -4
Out of curiosity, I looked up what Rex 84 sites are allegedly in Utah. Here's a good one;
Fort Douglas is a very beautiful nostalgic installation located upslope from the University of Utah. It features large, well-preserved historic buildings and lovely, tree-lined boulevards. It's a national Historic Landmark.
For me, living in Ft. Douglas would be a significant improvement to my standard of living. Calling it a "prison camp" is ignorant in the extreme.
Most of the other references are to abandoned World War 2 internment camps for Japanese-Americans. They're unoccupied and falling apart.
The salient reference is to Skull Valley, in Tooele County. The author seems a bit confused about where Camp Williams lies in relation to Tooele (the city). It's east of it, not southwest.
Camp Williams is the primary training ground for Utah National Guard soldiers. It has firing ranges and extra billets to support the temporary rotation of troops. It's not "secret" in any way. And, BTW, the extra billets at Camp Williams are being prepared to evacuate Katrina refugees.
So apparently what happened was that a guy and his son wandered onto a military reservation with a weapon, and were understandably detained.
But what is generally beyond rational question is that whoever wrote up the alleged Rex 84 site survey for Utah has never actually been to Utah and has certainly never visited or seen the sites themselves. There's almost nothing that's correct about it.
Further, this same list is found on at least half a dozen other sites with no attribution. Clearly this is just another example of everyone passing around the same rumors with no effort whatsoever made to see whether the information is correct or even plausible. Sorry Dead Hoosiers, but your sources are striking out badly. I haven't seen anything from them that is within my personal power to verify, that matches even remotely what the facts are.
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Rex 84
Sept 6, 2005 20:22:54 GMT -4
Post by Dead Hoosiers on Sept 6, 2005 20:22:54 GMT -4
I only vouch for Rex 84 being the real deal. I didn't say that the list of camps was verified. Note that I said the list was "supposed" to be where the camps are. I have no proof that any camp on the list is actually one of those camps. The camp claimed to be in Palmdale is nearest me and I will check it out next time I'm up there and get back to you, if I still recall this thread.
Please read my posts more carefully. I believe I make myself perfectly clear as to what I believe is fact and what I'm not sure of.
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