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Post by knight on Aug 8, 2007 12:16:33 GMT -4
Hi everyone! I didn't see a place for an introduction, so I thought this would best fit in the general discussion. An atheist friend of mine one another board linked me here, and I thought that it was interesting. I never knew that people ACTUALLY believed that Apollo 13 was faked. I honestly don't see HOW or WHY they would think that, but okay... I come from the Evil Bible board ( www.evilbible.com/BB3/ ). I'm just wondering, are most of you guys atheists? I think you would find that message board very interesting. I like using logic and rational thinking. Also, I find fundies and crazy people who don't use logic very amusing. They definitely provide some side-splitting laughs. That's why I love them, though sometimes they can be frustrating. I'm sure you guys have experienced this. It's nice to see some more people who like to be rational.
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Jason
Pluto
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Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Aug 8, 2007 12:24:18 GMT -4
Welcome knight. I would say most people on this board are agnostics, with a good portion of genuinely religious people such as myself.
It's probably worth noting that most hoax believers we've seen here don't seem to have an overtly religious basis to their arguments against Apollo.
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Post by knight on Aug 8, 2007 12:33:01 GMT -4
Oh, okay.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Aug 8, 2007 17:29:05 GMT -4
I never knew that people ACTUALLY believed that Apollo 13 was faked.Not just 13, but all of the missions (though some seem not to know that there was more than 1) I honestly don't see HOW or WHY they would think that, but okay...Well the suspison is that they are in need of help from certain drugs, or perhaps they have taken too much of other ones. Of course I can't figure out how anyone could declare as an absolute that God doesn't exist when they know that scientifically it is impossible to a) test something that cannot be percieved by the senses, and b) prove a negative. I'm just wondering, are most of you guys atheists?Actually you'll find that a remarkable number of the main Debunkers here are Christians. I like using logic and rational thinking.A handy trait. Also, I find fundies and crazy people who don't use logic very amusing.How about Fundies that DO use rational thinking and just end up disagreeing with you? Of course you might like to post in the Beyond Belief section, I perfer to steer clear since religion discussions tend to get heated. It's nice to see some more people who like to be rational. Well as long as you don't expect "people who like to be rational" to be equal to "people who agree with me" then we should get on fine, when the topic is sciencem, there is a general consensus on the board, though we have a rather diverse position on politics and religion, so those discussions can get a little touchy on occasions. Anyway, welcome to the board and enjoy your time here.
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Post by Ginnie on Aug 8, 2007 20:50:59 GMT -4
I come from the Evil Bible board (http://www.evilbible.com/BB3/ ).
Hi Knight. I checked out the site just for a few minutes. A little bit nastier over there...Noticed the "Theists Suck" forum. Doesn't exactly encourage critical debate.
We've had many 'religious' debates here. Most posts have been respectful of peoples beliefs or non-beliefs. Maybe Dead Hoosiers or Jason could comment on that.
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Post by BertL on Aug 8, 2007 21:49:41 GMT -4
I think I'm an agnostic, but then again I'm not sure if the description of an agnostic is one that would fit my vision on it all.
I must add to that, that I do not give too much thought to the question "Is there a God?". I've answered the question myself with something along the lines of "There may be one, but I don't know it.". I feel that lingering over such a question for too long might narrow my mind, closing it off for people who have a different view of the world. I respect most religious people, and also atheists (although I do feel I tend to be persuaded to believe in (pre)judices about atheists).
In my opinion people should not judge other people on what religion they may or may not have. It does not make up for the full personality of a person. Not all Slytherins grow up becoming pure-blood loving Muggle-haters.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Aug 8, 2007 23:22:37 GMT -4
Agnostics admit that either they don't know, or they don't really care. They are basically fence sitters in some ways. They often acknowledge that there could be a god, but which one(s), and if they have any effect on the Universe is both unknowable and ultimately not of any use to them.
Atheists outright deny the existance of a god.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Aug 8, 2007 23:24:50 GMT -4
We've had many 'religious' debates here. Most posts have been respectful of peoples beliefs or non-beliefs. Maybe Dead Hoosiers or Jason could comment on that.Probably a good idea to be respectful when to my knowledge 4 of the top 5 posters on the board would tell you they have a Christian belief of some form.
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Post by echnaton on Aug 9, 2007 9:53:56 GMT -4
Welcome to the board, knight. I am a Christian as are many here, but many are not. I find that one of the strong points of this board is that most of us, Christian or not, agree that our beliefs may affect our perceptions of nature but don't have any predictable or measurable effect on the physical functioning of the world, thus we can use science to understand our surrounding.
I tend to stay away from the religious debates on here as I find them unproductive. I am far more interested in why people have certain beliefs and what those beliefs mean to them than arguing which prophet is the truest.
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Bob B.
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Post by Bob B. on Aug 9, 2007 11:46:03 GMT -4
Agnostics admit that either they don't know, or they don't really care. They are basically fence sitters in some ways. They often acknowledge that there could be a god, but which one(s), and if they have any effect on the Universe is both unknowable and ultimately not of any use to them. That description sounds a lot like me in some ways. If there is a God I don't think it is anything like the being commonly worshiped by the religions of the world. I suppose that on some level one could consider the physical laws that govern our Universe to be some type of God, but I certainly don't believe there is a supernatural deity out there somewhere pulling the strings. For the most part I think God is an antiquated idea whose time has past. I believe the best way to know “God”, if one insists on using that term, is by studying science. To me, theology and religion are pretty much a waste of time.
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Post by sts60 on Aug 9, 2007 12:13:24 GMT -4
Hi, knight, and welcome. (Points to echanton's post above) <-- What he said. Oh, and would you mind chiming in on the Lurkers and Viewers thread? Thanks!
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Jason
Pluto
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Post by Jason on Aug 9, 2007 12:39:22 GMT -4
Your description of your own views is pretty much what I would use as definition of "agnostic", Bert. Basically, someone who is undecided on whether God exists or not, doesn't give the matter too much thought in any case, and doesn't typically attend the services of any organized religion.
I would disagree, though, that contemplating religious ideas for too long is a bad thing (or a waste of time). It may "narrow your mind" to develop an opinion of your own on the subject but I don't think that means you must then disrespect others who hold a different opinion. Do you feel that liking a particular flavor of ice cream means you have to disrespect others who don't like it? And the questions addressed by religion are the big ones - "Why am I here? What's my purpose in life? How can I best find happiness?" Finding the best answers to those questions that you can is important.
I do agree that you should not judge a person by their professed religion. In fact some of the religious debates on this forum have turned on the idea of whether you should judge a religion by its doctrines or by its followers, who almost invariably fail to live up to those doctrines.
Many of the religious debates I have been involved in on this forum have been fairly fruitless as far as convincing the other parties goes, but I have found them to be helpful in giving me focus on my own views. I find that talking about your religious views with others tends to give you greater insight into aspects of them that, though you were aware of these particular aspects before, you may not have given much thought to them. I have often been on the defensive during these debates, but I find that is because others are less willing to discuss their own views in such a public forum and I try to avoid directly attacking the beliefs of others in any case. I tend to find value in nearly any strongly-held religious viewpoint, no matter whether I think it is fully correct or not.
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Post by LunarOrbit on Aug 9, 2007 13:38:32 GMT -4
Maybe I misunderstood you, but I don't consider that a criteria for being agnostic. When I was a teenager I used to cut my neighbours grass every week. What else is there to think about while cutting grass besides the mysteries of the universe? I contemplated religion a lot back then, and still do... and yet here I am, still an undecided agnostic.
If pushed to choose I would probably fall onto the atheist side of the fence, but I really don't think there is evidence one way or the other.
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Post by BertL on Aug 9, 2007 13:42:22 GMT -4
What else is there to think about while cutting grass besides the mysteries of the universe? Girls. On second thought, you're right. Mysteries of the universe. I think that one can put a great deal of thought in the question whether there is a God, and still conclude that he simply doesn't know it. That would, in my opinion, still make him an agnost. Maybe a more concious agnost.
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Jason
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Post by Jason on Aug 9, 2007 14:34:38 GMT -4
Maybe I misunderstood you, but I don't consider that a criteria for being agnostic. Rather than saying it's a criteria, I would say it's more of a typical trait, like generally not attending any church services. I have known agnostics who regularly attend church as well, but the majority seem not to, or only to attend at Easter and Christmas.
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