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Post by gwiz on Oct 30, 2006 3:14:37 GMT -4
A good present day comparison is the Formula 1 driver Kimi Raikonnen. He always looks very uncomfortable in a post-race press conference, but that doesn't mean someone else was driving the car.
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Post by heavenlybody on Nov 2, 2006 5:56:19 GMT -4
Nice video spongebob, From their body language and general demeanour we would say they are extremely uncomfortable telling a pack of lies.
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Post by nomuse on Nov 2, 2006 6:49:16 GMT -4
Lesse. Most alien abductees are shy and flustered when they talk about their experiences. So those are obvious lies. On the other hand, Bigfoot spotters look straight into the camera and grin. So Bigfoot must be real!
The "I heard a bomb" crowd of 9-11 witnesses are always looking over their shoulders, and they seem very defensive. So that's a lie. The architect seems quite comfortable -- so the official story must be correct there.
This is fun!
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Post by hplasm on Nov 2, 2006 7:24:13 GMT -4
Nice video spongebob, From their body language and general demeanour we would say they are extremely uncomfortable telling a pack of lies. We would probably be mistaken then. Or did you mean that, like most people, they would be uncomfortable telling a pack of lies, as you can see from their general demeanour? What does Bart's body language say, I wonder, as 'we' have proof that he lies...
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Post by sts60 on Nov 2, 2006 10:17:12 GMT -4
Nice video spongebob, From their body language and general demeanour we would say they are extremely uncomfortable telling a pack of lies.
As the punchline to the old joke goes, "What you mean we, kemosabe?"
Your opinion is duly noted. Most of us disagree with that opinion and have in fact given counterexamples (I can recall one or two instances of having to speak in public where I looked like I was gonna pass out, so that also is a counterexample.)
We are still waiting for you to back up your claims with something more than your opinion, which by your own listing of your expertise does not count as expert.
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Post by gillianren on Nov 3, 2006 6:43:44 GMT -4
As the punchline to the old joke goes, "What you mean we, kemosabe?" I always heard it as "What do you mean we, white man?"
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Post by HeadLikeARock (was postbaguk) on Nov 3, 2006 8:12:55 GMT -4
Nice video spongebob, From their body language and general demeanour we would say they are extremely uncomfortable telling a pack of lies. Or we could say they were uncomfortable speaking in public and dealing with their new found fame, which Armstrong especially believed was unwarranted due to Apollo being a team achievement, rather than an individual achievement.
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Post by Mr Gorsky on Nov 3, 2006 8:48:20 GMT -4
And so the great circle begins once again.
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Post by sts60 on Nov 3, 2006 9:45:44 GMT -4
Yeah, there's really not much point to this. It's just "they look uncomfortable - they must be lying". There's only so many ways you can point out that lots of honest people look uncomfortable in front of crowds, especially after coming through such a major event.
It's a variation on margamatix's "if the astronaut swore on a Bible in front of me, I would believe him" routine. He could comfortably pretend to be genuinely interested in doing so if only he had the time or the money to travel or to get into the speaking engagement or whatever without ever having to actually back up his claim.
Meanwhile, he simply ignored the fact that some of the most sincere-looking, photogenic, crowd-pleasing, look-you-straight-in-the-eye, firm-dry-handshake, warm-smile, swear-on-the-Bible types around are liars, con men, and outright psychopaths.
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Post by LunarOrbit on Nov 3, 2006 10:05:50 GMT -4
Anyone who gets nervous during a job interview (and who doesn't?) should be able to understand why the astronauts might be uncomfortable at a press conference. Does the fact that I get nervous during a job interview mean I'm lying and shouldn't be hired?
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Post by scooter on Nov 3, 2006 12:43:33 GMT -4
Nice video spongebob, From their body language and general demeanour we would say they are extremely uncomfortable telling a pack of lies. OK, then...now what's your proof? Evidence? Facts?
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Post by AstroSmurf on Nov 4, 2006 3:51:53 GMT -4
Does the fact that I get nervous during a job interview mean I'm lying and shouldn't be hired? Ha! You're probably planning on eloping wi' the captain's chairman's daughter.
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Post by BertL on Nov 12, 2006 9:19:46 GMT -4
Nice video spongebob, From their body language and general demeanour we would say they are extremely uncomfortable telling a pack of lies. Now, I would agree of the astronauts are being extremely uncomfortable. They sure look that way, judging from body language et al. However, that cannot conclude they are lying. The logic you propose is: The astronauts were extremely uncomfortable, therefore they are lying.This is wrong logic. It's like saying I am smart, therefore I am always right. Basically, it's a wrong implementation of the A is, therefore B is also logic rule, thingie. If we go on with the same logic you just showed, I could also say: The astronauts were extremely uncomfortable, therefore they pooped their pants. (excuse my French) You are using the A is, therefore B is also logic, though the logic you should use is A is, therefore B might be. Or, in other words: The astronauts were extremely uncomfortable, therefore they might have been lying. However, they also might have pooped their pants. Or they might just have been reminded of a traumatic and scaring event. Or they might haven't had media training and didn't know what to do in a situation. I'm just going to show you the last one is most likely, from both the "fake! fake!" and "real! real!" side. Whatever the reason of their uncomfortability is, imagine yourself in their place (in either case) and see everything through their eyes. Remember, you know the A is part, but not the therefore B is. Now you're going to look for the B part, through their eyes from two different points of view. Just position yourself in their place! You've just been to the moon, and back. Now you're surrounded by tons of people who want you to sit there, on a chair, answering questions about your journey, holding an international interview for possibly one of the first times in your life. Much is expected of you, while you are sitting there realizing you're being seen by millions of people, making instant history. Of course you would be uncomfortable! Now, position yourself in their place if everyone has faked it. You've just faked one of the greatest events in 20th century, doing your utter best to fool millions of people into one of the greatests conspiracies ever. Now you're surrounded by tons of people who want you to sit there, on a chair, answering questions about your supposed journey (of which they don't know it's fake), holding an international interview for possibly one of the first times in your life. Much is expected of you, while you are sitting there realizing you're being seen by millions of people, making instant history, all with lies. Of course you would be uncomfortable! I hope you realize now that the uncomfortable body language can mean anything and doesn't prove anything of the thing being faked or real.
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Post by lionking on Nov 12, 2006 14:50:16 GMT -4
It needs some expert on body language like the one who analyzed the politics gestures here. I still remember some of her comments:
Opening hands while speaking: means telling the truth
Not looking directly in the eyes or the camera: means lying (I have to disagree here as I faced a nervous situation speaking to the students at school. Iwasn't prepared and was asked haphazardly to present, so didn't look at all at the students. However, it indicated that I wasn't sure of what I am saying, as I did't read them well).
Moving in the chair: uncomfortable
Holding down the hands and grabbing th chair: afraid about losing position
Fingers crossed (as Armstrong): Block, doesn't want to speak aout the topic
Putting right hand over left hand: trying to hide your true self, your subconsciousness
scratching below the nose right and left with the second finger: you are not convinced of what you are saying
and the list goes on.
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Post by Jason Thompson on Nov 12, 2006 15:10:45 GMT -4
Not looking directly in the eyes or the camera: means lying
(I know you already disagreed with this one, lionking, but it comes up so often in other contexts it is worth hammering home.)
An inability to maintain eye contact does not necessarily indicate lying. A man who is lying may not want to make eye contact, but a man who does not maintain eye contact is not necessarily lying. Many, many people have difficulty maintaining eye contact for various reasons. I cannot do it for long. If I'm shoved in front of a group of people in a public forum my ability to do it is further compromised.
Moving in the chair: uncomfortable
This one actually made me laugh. The implication is we are to take it the man is uncomfortable emotionally and intellectually about the lie he has to tell, but it might just be a very uncomfortable chair!
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