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Post by nomuse on Nov 12, 2006 16:11:54 GMT -4
Ye GADS. That body language "study" you cite has been thoroughly trashed in fields that know what they are doings...including psychology and police science. This is not to say that there are not general truths to how a human being reacts physically to emotional states, and there are even more subtle signs (such as eye movements being distinctly different when someone is remembering the past or projecting a future).
However, in the real world of real people you have to take into account cultural and personal body languages. There are cultures where the deepest respect is shown with bowed head and no eye contact. Others where respect requires strong eye contact. Heck, there is a difference between different cultures on mainland China about whether to wave "come here" with palm fore-ward or palm backward!
Add in two more steps of distance; you are seeing men that you have no idea what their day was like, their physical health at the time -- and you see them through the filter of clips of video, therefor you can not know what is happening off screen, under the table. One man could be on a hard wooden chair because they ran out of cushions, and you wouldn't know it. Another might be making eye contact with his wife, sitting right out of camera view, and you wouldn't know it.
So any sort of "analysis" of this kind, but particularly taking a list of generic terms and applying them indiscriminately to what you believe you are observing, is the worst sort of armchair analysis.
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Post by BertL on Nov 12, 2006 18:31:28 GMT -4
I remember being taught that there are countries where making eye contact is offensive. My, that would've been a big lying pot.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Nov 12, 2006 19:05:43 GMT -4
Not looking directly in the eyes or the camera: means lying
Actually this is daft in the context of a large number of people and cameras. Afterall you can't keep eye-contact with them all. If you have ever had to speck in front of a large number of people (a rather un-nerving experience for most people, including me) you have to move your gaze around simply to avoid looking like a stunned raccoon. Watch anyone giving a public speech of camera. They rarely look directly at the camera, they are looking about their audience.
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Post by echnaton on Nov 12, 2006 23:35:46 GMT -4
And to think, I was just making a joke in first reply on this thread. Well I guess my read was correct.
Personally, I think Aldrin does look decidedly uncomfortable in the video. He is looking aside and frequently shifting in his chair. I attribute this to his known dissatisfaction with his position as number two man on the moon. He lobbied to become the first man and had already begun to develop his drinking problem before the moon mission. After the mission it must have been even more difficult for him to be the second guy with a need to defer to his commander, particularly in public.
Ironically his slide into alcoholism blunted the real celebrity status he had. Since he was far more willing to be in public than Armstrong, he could have made a much better public career out of his flight and been remembered by more people. Some people handle this kind of disappointment better than others. Aldrin took it poorly.
Nevertheless, he was the right man for the right seat in the LM (if there had been seats). If a problem had occurred during the lift off from the moon, he was the guy you wanted to make the rendezvous calculations.
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Post by Count Zero on Nov 13, 2006 1:02:32 GMT -4
Since he was far more willing to be in public than Armstrong, he could have made a much better public career out of his flight and been remembered by more people.
After his recovery, this is essentially what happened.
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Post by lionking on Nov 13, 2006 5:04:02 GMT -4
Actaully, the expert said that there should be other factors taken into considerations that should be put in context. That's why we need an expert. However, not maintaining eye contact could mean shyness or lying or any other thing, but it boils down to not being comfortable with what is being said.
It was interesting that when the security general held his chair, he was really threatened by hi position, and resigned afterwards. It was interesting also that when the other politician said something sensitive, he moved on the other side while standing, i.e stood on the other leg and changed his position. It bothered him saying the sensitive issueand just moved as he was saying it.
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Post by gwiz on Nov 13, 2006 5:40:23 GMT -4
However, not maintaining eye contact could mean shyness or lying or any other thing, but it boils down to not being comfortable with what is being said. Incidentally, if a politician on the TV looks squarely at the camera and seems very confident, do you therefore believe that what he says is true?
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Post by lionking on Nov 13, 2006 6:57:25 GMT -4
She said that the politicians are trained and advised before going on public. I assur you that ours are too smart to speak in a confident manner wven when they don't believe themselves. However, the issue is that no matter how much careful, they will leak at some moments their unconsciousness. Our security general has a masters of deception. He tortured ppl in prisons and oppressed opposers at that time, yet, when asked in a personal interview what are the best things he does at his leisure time, he answered that he reads in the bible and the koran and finds that ll religions speak of peace and no basic contradictions between religions. What a poor man! During that interview that preceded his resignation, he used his second finger very comfortably (to act on pp), saying to the opposers that they should "win by the law", while the president he supports has broken the country's law staying in his chair untill now, and being enforced by Syria. So, everything he preaches, he does against what he says. So, no, I don't believe every politician who looks in the camera, bcz many gestures should follow to confirm this, like opening the hands, and they are very smart that they act in a confident manner, but as I said, they should leak something. They should be watched for some more time before you pass on judgements, according to the expert, espcially with someone like Jamil Ssayyid, who is very famous for his political shows and performances.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Nov 13, 2006 15:51:10 GMT -4
Incidentally, if a politician on the TV looks squarely at the camera and seems very confident, do you therefore believe that what he says is true?Depends if their mouth is open.
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Post by gillianren on Nov 13, 2006 17:02:23 GMT -4
However, not maintaining eye contact could mean shyness or lying or any other thing, but it boils down to not being comfortable with what is being said. No, it doesn't. Shyness has nothing to do with not liking what's being said and everything to do with not liking to "bring yourself forward." I had a roommate who was hugely shy. She could've been speaking the absolute truth so far as she knew it, and she still wouldn't look most people in the eye, because she didn't like talking to them. Besides, with a lot of people and possibly even cameras in a room, how can you tell that they aren't looking someone in the eye?
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Post by lionking on Nov 13, 2006 17:04:40 GMT -4
gillianern that is why I said it wasn't always lying, but lying and shyness have in common that you r not comfortable with what you r saying, and you prefer not to say it.
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Post by HeadLikeARock (was postbaguk) on Nov 13, 2006 17:33:13 GMT -4
gillianern that is why I said it wasn't always lying, but lying and shyness have in common that you r not comfortable with what you r saying, and you prefer not to say it. I think you're wrong in a very subtle but important point here. Shyness is very little to do with being uncomfortable about what you are saying, and everything to do with saying it in front of anything outside your own close circle of friends... for example, a large press conference, full of the world's media, with an array of cameras and microphones to contend with. I'm a very gregarious and outgoing person, not at all shy - but I do NOT like public speaking. I often feel quite self-conscious, and can end up blushing - which has nothing at all to do with lying, and everything to do with being uncomfortable with the situation... not with what I am saying.
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Post by lionking on Nov 13, 2006 17:39:35 GMT -4
but you prefer that you r not saying it, whther in front of public or not. This is what I meant. In both situations, you don't want to say it, whether lying or being shy.
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Post by LunarOrbit on Nov 13, 2006 18:39:25 GMT -4
In both situations, you don't want to say it, whether lying or being shy. Not wanting to say something due to shyness does not mean they disagree with what they're being asked to say. They can be completely honest and believe every thing they are saying is the 100% truth and still be uncomfortable. The astronauts behaviour is only evidence of a hoax IF they were lying. The fact that the appear uncomfortable at the press conference is not proof that they were lying because there are other explanations for their discomfort. I saw a televised university lecture last year, the subject was the difference between introverts (shy people) and extroverts (outgoing people). It all has to do with how they deal with social stimulation... extroverts crave it and can't get enough, whereas introverts dread it and will do everything in their power to avoid it. Is an introvert a liar simply because they dread speaking in front of large crowds?
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Post by gillianren on Nov 13, 2006 19:19:59 GMT -4
Exactly. My friend is fine talking to me, because I'm in her comfort zone. (Actually, this is true of several of my friends.) Presentations in front of her class was an anxiety-producing occasion, even if she was saying the exact same thing to them as she was to me. It's not what's said. It's to whom it's said.
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