Bob B.
Bob the Excel Guru?
Posts: 3,072
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Post by Bob B. on Nov 13, 2006 19:56:03 GMT -4
I’ve always been an introverted person and use to be terrified of public speaking. I’ve come a long way over the years and can now handle the situation fairly well when speaking to a small audience, though I still don’t like it.
I’ve just re-watched the Apollo 11 press conference video and I have to say that Neil Armstrong is acting and speaking almost exactly the way I use to when trying to force myself through a public speaking situation. He looks to be a man who is doing his best to suppress the dread he is feeling and make it through the presentation. I can really empathize with him because I’ve felt all the same emotions. His body language and the way he is speaking can all be easily explained by the fact he is a very introverted person. I can say confidently from personal experience that a person can act as he does and still be speaking 100% the truth. To suggest he “must be lying” is ridiculous.
And to whoever said Armstrong is not making eye contact, I find that absurd. How can you possibly know he’s not making eye contact with people in the audience, he is gazing out into the crowd almost the whole time? The only time I noticed him looking away was when he was struggling to find the next words to say. This is very common; a person will often shift his/her gaze away when trying to recall something.
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Post by PeterB on Nov 13, 2006 21:21:34 GMT -4
Lionking
Why don't you watch footage of Dave Scott talking to the US Congress after Apollo 15. He looks confident and at ease. Does that mean Apollo 15 really happened?
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Post by LunarOrbit on Nov 13, 2006 23:27:15 GMT -4
I definitely consider myself an introvert, although it's not as bad as when I was younger. In school I would have to force myself to attend class if I knew I was going to have to give a presentation. The urge to flee (almost as if I was standing face to face with a bear instead of a classroom full of people) was difficult to overcome. I'm sure I looked even more nervous and uncomfortable than Neil Armstrong. If anyone is interested, with the help of Google I remembered that Dr. Brian Little was the speaker at that lecture I mentioned previously. He's a very entertaining speaker... he reminds me of Robin Williams (and I think he's actually Rich Little's brother). Check out the video on the webpage, it's not the same lecture I saw before but it's on the same subject.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Nov 13, 2006 23:36:23 GMT -4
I have to say that Neil Armstrong is acting and speaking almost exactly the way I use to when trying to force myself through a public speaking situation. He looks to be a man who is doing his best to suppress the dread he is feeling and make it through the presentation. I can really empathize with him because I’ve felt all the same emotions. His body language and the way he is speaking can all be easily explained by the fact he is a very introverted person.
Indeed. Neil has always been known as someone that finds the limelight hard because he's naturally shy. Even with the press for his Gemini and the Pre-Apollo 11 press conferences it was noted that he wasn't particularly comfortable being put in that situation. I'm sure if he'd had the choice he'd have go to the moon, come back and gone straight home taking the phone off the hook on the way past.
edited to add, And I wouldn't have blamed him had he done so, if it had been me I would do exactly that
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Post by lionking on Nov 14, 2006 4:38:45 GMT -4
Agreed. It migth be that he was not lying. I aid this from the beginning.
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Post by HeadLikeARock (was postbaguk) on Nov 14, 2006 8:40:05 GMT -4
Are we all agreed that this video isn't evidence of them lying, UNLESS the Apollo landings are proved to be faked?
And if they were faked, where is the evidence?
I have seen none on any Moon Hoax website that actually stands up to scrutiny (much of the so-called "evidence" is utter bunk anyway). Couple that with the huge body of evidence that this historically and scientifically accepetd event DID happen - well, that's why I don't believe it was hoaxed.
If there is any genuine evidence out there, bring it on! Let's examine it.
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Post by lionking on Nov 14, 2006 9:38:17 GMT -4
no, you're very optimistic to jump to conclusions. We said it might be they are shy. This needs experts to analyze them.
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Post by HeadLikeARock (was postbaguk) on Nov 14, 2006 10:57:30 GMT -4
no, you're very optimistic to jump to conclusions. We said it might be they are shy. This needs experts to analyze them. It was a question, not a conclusion. If you need an expert to tell you they do not come across as being shy and introverted in the glare of media publicity, good luck in finding one.
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Post by echnaton on Nov 14, 2006 14:47:00 GMT -4
no, you're very optimistic to jump to conclusions. We said it might be they are shy. This needs experts to analyze them. Do you really think there are “experts” that can tell if someone is lying from watching a video of a press conference? There undoubtedly are people that claim they can, but are there any that really can? Your requirement in this case is unreasonable because it requires an expertise that does not exist.
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Post by lionking on Nov 14, 2006 17:40:41 GMT -4
no, they exist.
After training and studying the gestures in context, they certainly can, as it is supported by evidence, if I am not mistaken.
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Post by PeterB on Nov 14, 2006 18:39:28 GMT -4
Lionking
Why don't you watch footage of Dave Scott talking to the US Congress after Apollo 15. He looks confident and at ease. Does that mean Apollo 15 really happened?
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Post by BertL on Nov 14, 2006 18:45:18 GMT -4
no, they exist. After training and studying the gestures in context, they certainly can, as it is supported by evidence, if I am not mistaken. Very nicely put. My expectation would be that if you'd show the video in the context "it was all faked" the expert would say the astronauts are lying; yet in the context "it was their first (or second) worldwide historic interview" they'd just be nervous even to an expert's eyes. However we do not know for sure; one would need to test that with at least two different unbiased gesture-experts looking at the same sequence in the two different contexts and see how the results match up to know that for sure. Of course, for the thing to be reliable one would have to have a lot of unbiased different gesture-experts. I find this expertise-on-gestures very interesting, though it would need a lot of background information to be actually true. Especially a lot of research on whether the gestures actually imply something would be necessary for me to be convinced.
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Post by Jason Thompson on Nov 14, 2006 20:02:13 GMT -4
one would need to test that with at least two different unbiased gesture-experts looking at the same sequence in the two different contexts and see how the results match up
As a further control, we should also test with no context whatsoever: show some experts the film and see what they say.
The difficulty there is that everyone has heard of the Apollo landings and most assume it to be historical fact. Getting any other context is going to be hard. I have yet to hear of anyone who became an affirmed believer that it was all faked after having suspicions raised solely by the body language of the astronauts in post-mission interviews.
Some magazines these days have a section where a supposed expert analyses a celebrity photograph, usually of a couple, to see what they can tell us about them. Is he happy? Is their relationship on rocky ground? The trouble is they never take context into account. I've seen them say that one couple has an uncertain future because one of them is smiling into a camera while the other plays up for the crowd, when the one playing up is known to adopt a playful extroverted persona when out in public and surrounded by media.
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Post by echnaton on Nov 14, 2006 20:07:58 GMT -4
no, they exist. After training and studying the gestures in context, they certainly can, as it is supported by evidence, if I am not mistaken. There is no fool proof way to tell if someone is lying. People who have training in interrupting personal gestures can issue an opinion. It is nothing more than an opinion. Do you have any backing for this assertion?
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Post by PeterB on Nov 14, 2006 20:26:29 GMT -4
Echnaton said:
Er, did you mean interrupting or interpreting? :-)
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