furi
Mars
The Secret is to keep banging those rocks together.
Posts: 260
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Post by furi on Jun 9, 2007 13:25:14 GMT -4
As I've said before--this is a case in which there are several plausible scenarios. We can't just base our opinions on the official version of things. We don't know what kind of pacts governments have really made with each other. We don't know who has bribed or blackmailed whom. If the press doesn't report something, as far as the people know, it didn't happen. There may be countries where the newspapers openly say that it was a hoax--most American would never know about it. I've seen Spanish newspapers openly say things that the US press never reports. It has no effect on American public opinion as almost none of them had access to the newspapers of other countries until the internet arrived. well let us see where this point falls down. I am not an American, and I have not been brought up with American Media Sources, so my conclusions are not drawn from these sources, strangely enough if I wished to read-up on a principal of physics, my starting point would not be USA Today or even a Science supplement inside a UK Paper, I would probably go to the Library (Later on check the net out first) and have a look in published science papers or Books Literature on the subject. before Net access was widely available I could if required get Das Spiegl Pravda La Monde The Washington Post etc, I just put in an order from the newsagent, and although I might get them a week or so later I could still obtain them. and how would a Paper in London be able to quote articles in US papers the following day if no access was possible. *(added in edit) during second world war Germany and Tokyo both had broadcast segments in English, does this mean the facts provided by Tokyo Rose and Lord Haw Haw where more accurate than those transmitted by the Allies/Neutrals? You replied that the Government in question for the suppression of this info was the US government, how therefore would this effect the rest of the planets scientists... please remember the political situation of the time, I would like to even here even one plausible method of bribary the US Govt. could offer the Soviets to "Could you keep a lid on things, look you know and we know it's fake, but if you could just keep it quiet, and fake all subsequent data from scientists inside your sphere of influence it would be most appreciated" right whose next on the phonelist "Hey Mao me old china, how are things hanging in the PRC...." you get the idea, now what level of bribery could there be to bribe the governments of the remaindng %95 of the planets population to perpetuate this hoax. please provide a hypothesis with even a molecule of supporting evidence, not just a statement that says there are many... specify one or two of these many plausible situations * some of these papers where produced in the UK as well after having the articals translated and typeset locally, but the originals where available most printhouses would be greatful of Anything to increase circulation and Governments would subsidse cirulation to increase political viewpoint awareness,
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furi
Mars
The Secret is to keep banging those rocks together.
Posts: 260
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Post by furi on Jun 8, 2007 8:48:14 GMT -4
What am I supposed to think when I find stuff like this. I think you have got the punctuation wrong. This should read: Then the correct answer becomes, "yes you are." I Office LOL'd --- HBs & CTs might want to read the following little study guide www.studygs.net/scimethod.htmand maybe they could apply it when producing/countering evidence. I Think I will turn it into a video and YT it, (Is it just me that uses You Tube! as a comment to a person that has just been a twunt )
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furi
Mars
The Secret is to keep banging those rocks together.
Posts: 260
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Post by furi on Jun 8, 2007 6:36:17 GMT -4
It would be easy for the government to select a group of peers who have sold out. I've given example of that at the risk of being banned. Any data that the government makes public may or may not be bogus. The government releases bogus information all the time. No conclusions can be formed based on any data released by the government. Rocky who is The Government in question?, the US Government, The Politburo, The Seat of the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg perhaps. which government of which country is bribing all of the worlds academics to agree with the line towed, even though this may compromise their research / project / reputation.? All data is open to inspection, the data in question to do with the VAB can be independentally verified, remember other countries were in space and are now in space, this IS a very important fact, this allows independant review. You also have to remember that the other Space Agency at the time was controlled by a government Hostile to the US.
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furi
Mars
The Secret is to keep banging those rocks together.
Posts: 260
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Post by furi on Jun 7, 2007 13:42:35 GMT -4
*Strolls in and sups beer*
Not really. I've read pretty much everything on Starfish Prime that has been declassified, including the post-mission operational report. There's nothing in there about measuring the Van Allen belts. In fact, nothing about the Van Allen belts at all. If there was any such component to the test, it remains either undiscovered or classified.
Yup, your right Starfish was a WE (Weapons effect) test for EMP, As was pretty much the whole of the Dominic operation (pretty huge series), The other prime/fishy and Starfish warhead tests, primarily for the Nike series of rockets and dedicated EMP weaps,
it was the earlier Argus tests ('58) used in relation to early satellites (Explorer 4) to help grade the possible effectiveness of an EMP device by measuring magnetic/electron flux/density after establishing a baseline activity of the belts.which I was thinking of., and although an extrapolation of the belt charge density could be extrapolated from the starfish test, if either Altitude or yield where calculated it was not the primary function of the test
The Layman can't understand, was in relation to A certain posters constant requests/comments that if it's too complex and can't understand it is not a proper answer, but wants a full and expert answer,
=^..^=
editted checked which explorer probe it was
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furi
Mars
The Secret is to keep banging those rocks together.
Posts: 260
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Post by furi on Jun 7, 2007 3:07:40 GMT -4
popping my forum cherry so be gentle
This is not a specific post as to the manufacturing of data, or to Empirical proof taken over common sense or expected/mal-published thoughts more just to some generic Data collection and Reality checks.
I believe the Starfish Prime and the Other HANE tests which by nature introduced Hi radiation Flux into the Magnetosphere and also the belts them selves, provided a mass of info and data that could effectively provide particle densities across that region, through observation, and measurement of EM strength across most of the southern pacific, this data would not have been specific to the US as Soviet and any other specialised physicist teams would have been able to pickup monitor and extrapolate data. I can't remember specifically but I believe starfish Prime was specifically a test to measure and confirm the Van Allen Belts, as opposed to being a Hi Alt ERRB ABM test.(prob both)
as for published data being mis-interpreted, It doesn't take long for a machinist or a designer to calculate that pi is not 4 or 22/7. and with some work that it is not 3.1415926535897932384626433832795
I can't remember if it was Keppler or Newton (I Think probably Keppler) that was a little upset with observed elliptical orbits differing from the common sense view that they should be circular, as the great clock maker wouldn't make mistakes, and even tried to modify theories to fit in with this.
If NASA had produced false data, it wouldn't have been just the Soviets that would have immediately have pointed and posted a quick headline in Pravda and to the rest of the worlds community saying "LOLZ NASA U R Fa1lLsKi"(*), I don't think any amount of bribery could have kept the political machine of the USSR silent given the political atmosphere at the time.
If anything almost transparent data access to similar agencies would have been required to ensure that such a cry could not be made, as the effort would have been a waste of political oneupmanship if that was the case.(not a waste of money though ;D )
I have started reading this Forum after meeting not 1 but 3 HBers in the Pub, one everyone knows is a general CT nut, (illuminati freemason NZO etc) however the other 2 I always thought as being quite normal and rational, having read through a couple of the HB websites I have come to the belief that all you seem to need to do is put a statement in the format
FACT: All conspiracy Theories are a government plot to stop YOU finding out the Truth!!!
and it becomes a definite fact, and after reading posts here a lot of the HBers seem to Favour Youtube and googled CT sites links and seem to be as acceptant of new thought as they are to Reason and Logic.
Some of the Responses I have read here are some of the most methodical and reasoned and also easily researched answers I have seen on a lot of forums in a Very long time, I knew a little about optics before (not photographic) but now reading the responses and with a little google fu and applied reason, I know a heck of a lot more
As has been said in many threads and replies to the OP, you are crying Foul Bogus Hoax, supply us with proof
oh and don't give me that Layman can't understand crap, A-Level physics will supply you with a damn good grounding, damn even the basic mechanics and Nuc Physics you get at 14 should be able to dismiss most of the radiation/thrust/computational queries.
BTW, anyone know the address for NASAs Accounting department they owe me 34 years of Backhanders.
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furi
Mars
The Secret is to keep banging those rocks together.
Posts: 260
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Post by furi on Aug 31, 2007 9:57:19 GMT -4
That would make another case for an HB being thought of as modified Eliza chatterbot.
hmm with all of these accusation maybe it is a *DUM DUM DUMMER* Conspiracy
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furi
Mars
The Secret is to keep banging those rocks together.
Posts: 260
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Post by furi on Aug 30, 2007 10:35:56 GMT -4
Surely an anti gravity device used to fake the filming could be used to get folks to the moon, far easier than a kinbig chemical rocket.
or... am I missing a huge amount of fallacy and conspiracy in my thinking?
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furi
Mars
The Secret is to keep banging those rocks together.
Posts: 260
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Post by furi on Aug 29, 2007 10:43:29 GMT -4
Welcome Unscannable, Pull up a kitten.
The Wrong dust was most definately put there by a whistle blower, but I can't say anymore otherwise I will get a free ride in a black helicopter.
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furi
Mars
The Secret is to keep banging those rocks together.
Posts: 260
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Post by furi on Aug 29, 2007 7:27:13 GMT -4
No Doubt youse lot already know about it but I have managed to finally DL one of the bad boys from this site apollo.sese.asu.edu/METRIC_PREVIEW/index.htmlthe only suitable word I can Think of is ZOMG!!!eleven!WTFBBQ! anyone know of a printshop with a decent RIP printer that could turn these into Wallpaper for my flat so I can do the walls and ceiling.
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furi
Mars
The Secret is to keep banging those rocks together.
Posts: 260
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Post by furi on Jun 7, 2007 17:09:43 GMT -4
A few quick replies, apologies for no direct quotes
Ivan, NASA took some 3 meter cores, well a 3 meter depth of the regolith would provide a far higher time frame of activity for samples, also the range of the samples across a mere 3 meters would assist in determination of frequency and intensity of nearby strikes from micrometeorites upwards, radioisotope and ejecta blanket thickness, as well as formation of granule size of material from heat fusion (allowing from nearby observation of crater to estimate mass/velocity of impact, as well as possible impactor construction) , this is a world without weathering erosion, 3 meters can hold a lot of history, unless of course the sample happened to dig down though a 3 meter thick deposition of ejecta from a recent (couple of centuries possible) large strike, but that would be statistical bad luck, it may (not a geologist so wouldn't be able to interpret the results even if presented) provide a reasonable history into approximate incident system radiation therefore increasing the knowledge of space hazards. I am sure Geologists the world over would love a 100-200 meter drilled core, but you know mass constraints and all
The following is to answer a question that is commonly posed, I thought this myself till I found out more, and specifically relates to.
Apollo missions as a cover up for ICBM research/Missile Saber rattling
asdf or guest, the Exo atmospheric delivery of biological weapons would be inefficient, for chemical and biological, a low level area dispersion is preferable, and is highly dependent on local weather conditions and therefore Theatre Adjusted in hours pref minutes before launch, this maybe why the majority of bio systems tended to be favoured to theatre based or INF ranged system, something tomahawk GLCM was perfectly suited for also aircraft delivery systems, in a likely strategic takeover scenario, BIO weapons would be placed at strategic targets, Water,Agricultural weaponry to weaken the opponent prior to an attack. As the reentry would not have to penetrate that deep through the atmosphere as an apollo rentry or even offer such an aerobraking face, a standard ICBM Rentry test would be sufficient (I Believe such RV tests where carried out in the Solomons (Kwajelein) and also white sands,
Until I looked at weaponry systems in detail (through work or released info)I believed that part of the moon shots remit was an extension of the ICBM development system,however the scale of the launchers involved are incongruous to Us deployment strategy, with the exception of the 9MT armed titans which where always rubble bounces in The extreme, the progression to soviet hardened launch silos required multiple more accurate targeting rather than massive general hits, hence the follow on development of the foot printed 3 MIRV designs of the minuteman mods with a considerable drop in yield than if they had been SRVd, this was to target a 1st strike counter force majority with a reasonable rate of disabling Airfields Silos and C3, leaving Theatre systems to clear up Mobile and Quick Strike, The Pershing missile system for example was the ultimate kick in the ass for the soviet Admin as there was now a weapon accurate and fast enough to hit Moscow with very little alert time. this co joined with the minuteman system, provided a reasonable counter force threat with Long range Bombers for Theatre specific and Mission specific Large Yield weapons for Rubble Bouncing, as well as several failed ICCM (inter continental cruise missile) systems (snark, Navajo (one other but the name escapes me for the minute)) provided the bulk Of delivery systems (Sole US, it operated in Conjunction with UK Strategy under the SIOPs)
After a certain degree of scale there is little point dropping scaled larger weapons onto an area, EG in an average urban environment the best bang for the buck (rubble for the rouble) is achieved at a higher number of warheads of lower yield than a single high yield warhead, in fact using 7x100 kt devices in a patterned target area provided a significantly higher simulated yield than a dual 1 MT strike (source: my work, but I should be able to find a reasonable piece of geometric modeling software on line)
therefore given that in 1967 using land Missile forces and excluding European theatre weapons the US had Minuteman 1 2, Titan, and maybe a few remaining Atlas Launchers, Given the fact that the Titan ICBM variant and the Minuteman where dedicated SS Mission profiles (the Solid fueled MM being blisteringly fast highly effective weapon systems and would start to vector towards target within seconds after launch
Question, What other purpose other than for The Lunar missions profile, or as a Very Very Heavy Satellite Lifter would a launch vehicle of the Saturn V Lift profile serve, and why would it be built?
Comparisons Saturn V to the Titan 2 System (Source astronautix.com)
SAT V :LEO Payload: 118 000 kg (260 000 lb). to: 185 km Orbit. at: 28.00 degrees. Payload: 47 000 kg (103 000 lb). to a: Translunar trajectory. Titan2:LEO Payload: 3,100 kg (6,800 lb). to: 185 km Orbit
SAT V: Development Cost $: 7 439.600 million. in: 1966 average dollars. Launch Price $: 431.000 million. in: 1967 price dollars.(##). Titan 2: Development Cost $: 400.000 million. in: 1963 average dollars.Flyaway Unit Cost $: 3.158 million. in: 1969 unit dollars (##).
(##). if someone knows of a good site to standardise the figures A relative performance and cost for missile system/specialised space equipment cost can be reconciled, minuteman was a far cheaper fly away cost (1.32 Million per MM1 in 1964)
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furi
Mars
The Secret is to keep banging those rocks together.
Posts: 260
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Post by furi on Oct 10, 2007 1:15:22 GMT -4
I think most people here would love to see a permannt Lunar/Martian Base (wouldn't really think of it as a colony) Lunar one would be a great staging post for later missions, and martian terraforming/colonisation would be an absolute awe inspiring exercise.
however I just want to be wearing a silver suit and going to work via my hovewr car in 50 years
THINKING .. NO I DON'T I'll be 85 and say what you like about pensions or longevity, I will not wear a silver spandex suit at thaty age unless there is a damned good reason for it
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furi
Mars
The Secret is to keep banging those rocks together.
Posts: 260
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Post by furi on Aug 29, 2007 9:24:57 GMT -4
Not Doing too Badly been enjoying the Rain and going to the pub a lot. hows yourself? found one link, regarding mental breakdowns, had to refine my googlefu to get rid of all the Nowak links, I was lucky in that I thought it was Aldrin. but is only an mention. uplink.space.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=phenomena&Number=663140&page=11&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=Nearly all I could find is post and pre psych. studies and reports or planning for long term confinement (reminds me I didn't get the Russian/Esa post. wahhh, I'll now have to simulate mental and social deprivation by continuing work for the civil service )
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furi
Mars
The Secret is to keep banging those rocks together.
Posts: 260
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Post by furi on Aug 29, 2007 8:36:47 GMT -4
unless they are thinking of Lisa Nowak,
Didn't one or 2 Apollo Astronauts get treated for depression and alcohol probs, not exactly fruit loopiness but any mention of a psychological condition and I know people immediately think of Poo Flinging Napoleans. (reminds me must watch 12 monkeys again)
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furi
Mars
The Secret is to keep banging those rocks together.
Posts: 260
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Post by furi on Aug 29, 2007 4:57:23 GMT -4
Your wife is a little bit in the Pudding Club?
You've been sinning again haven't you?
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furi
Mars
The Secret is to keep banging those rocks together.
Posts: 260
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Post by furi on Aug 22, 2007 12:14:10 GMT -4
On the contrary: it is my contention that other dialects of English are merely debased varieties of the Archetypal form used by the Tyne... ;D Leave it out Guv. Your 'aving a larf. You lot don't speak proper like wot we Southerners do, init. Eyeyey yews spelled savna wrong, dats coz uze lot din der like don pay any tension to proper diction like wees lot do, yernowaddimeander wack. Kinnel zat time? off to de aleouse for a bevvie
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