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Gaza
Jan 7, 2009 14:16:11 GMT -4
Post by echnaton on Jan 7, 2009 14:16:11 GMT -4
Not all people are Hamas and not all people's elders are Hamas.
But everyone reaps benefits or pays the price for who is elected in any country.
he Egyptians have set a solution scenario similar to the above mensioned. Let us hope it will work out.
Yes let's do hope so.
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Gaza
Jan 7, 2009 17:07:07 GMT -4
Post by laurel on Jan 7, 2009 17:07:07 GMT -4
Here in Canada, the Canadian Union of Public Employees (CUPE) wants to ban Israeli professors from teaching, speaking or conducting research in Ontario universities unless they explicitly condemn Israel's actions in Gaza. I don't think CUPE will be successful, but it disturbs me how they're acting like thought police.
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Gaza
Jan 7, 2009 19:27:40 GMT -4
Post by Jason on Jan 7, 2009 19:27:40 GMT -4
Here in Canada, the Canadian Union of Public Employees (CUPE) wants to ban Israeli professors from teaching, speaking or conducting research in Ontario universities unless they explicitly condemn Israel's actions in Gaza. I don't think CUPE will be successful, but it disturbs me how they're acting like thought police. That's what you get for living behind the Maple Curtain.
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Gaza
Jan 7, 2009 21:44:37 GMT -4
Post by Data Cable on Jan 7, 2009 21:44:37 GMT -4
But everyone reaps benefits or pays the price for who is elected in any country. Careful... this means that disgruntled Iraqis would be justified in attacking American civilians.
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Gaza
Jan 7, 2009 22:13:58 GMT -4
Post by echnaton on Jan 7, 2009 22:13:58 GMT -4
But everyone reaps benefits or pays the price for who is elected in any country. Careful... this means that disgruntled Iraqis would be justified in attacking American civilians. How so?
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Gaza
Jan 8, 2009 10:47:35 GMT -4
Post by Data Cable on Jan 8, 2009 10:47:35 GMT -4
Would that not fall under "paying the price" for electing Dubbya? [edit: Formatting]
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Gaza
Jan 8, 2009 11:19:37 GMT -4
Post by echnaton on Jan 8, 2009 11:19:37 GMT -4
The statement was not about justifying any actions, but a comment on the reality of politics. However it may not have been clear.
All Americans are paying a price for the election of Bush whether they voted for him or not. The price of the war now and the taxes to pay off the war into the future. There may have been another price if GW had not been elected but we will never know. Soldiers pay the price in life or limb but at least they volunteered for the duty.
Similarly, all Gazans are paying a price for the election of a radical, fundamentalist and militant government bent in the destruction of their more powerful neighbor. One who is willing to use its population as mercenaries in a fight others don't want to take on themselves. Unfortunately many who pay the price in life or limb are not volunteers but children who are innocent of the situation. As always, they are paying a price for the choices of their elders.
I know that most Palestinians probably didn't choose Hamas primarily for the fight against Israel. They were largely chosen as the only alternative to the corrupt Fatah led PLO. But there is no ignoring the fact that they were the same war mongering group before they were elected and before the country politically split in two. There is no war, currently, in the Fatah led West Bank although the corruption is probably as rampant. Choices carry consequences and all must live with them.
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Gaza
Jan 8, 2009 12:06:39 GMT -4
Post by Jason on Jan 8, 2009 12:06:39 GMT -4
Dollar cost of the war in Iraq over the last five years: estimated at just under $600 billion. Proposed "financial bailout" plan from President-Elect Obama: $700 billion plus.
Yep, we've paid for who we elected in the past and are going to pay even more in the future.
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Gaza
Jan 8, 2009 15:30:18 GMT -4
Post by lionking on Jan 8, 2009 15:30:18 GMT -4
The statement was not about justifying any actions, but a comment on the reality of politics. However it may not have been clear. All Americans are paying a price for the election of Bush whether they voted for him or not. The price of the war now and the taxes to pay off the war into the future. There may have been another price if GW had not been elected but we will never know. Soldiers pay the price in life or limb but at least they volunteered for the duty. Similarly, all Gazans are paying a price for the election of a radical, fundamentalist and militant government bent in the destruction of their more powerful neighbor. One who is willing to use its population as mercenaries in a fight others don't want to take on themselves. Unfortunately many who pay the price in life or limb are not volunteers but children who are innocent of the situation. As always, they are paying a price for the choices of their elders. I know that most Palestinians probably didn't choose Hamas primarily for the fight against Israel. They were largely chosen as the only alternative to the corrupt Fatah led PLO. But there is no ignoring the fact that they were the same war mongering group before they were elected and before the country politically split in two. There is no war, currently, in the Fatah led West Bank although the corruption is probably as rampant. Choices carry consequences and all must live with them. this is a justification for killing civilians. No, they don't have to live , or actualy die, because of other people's faults. ACCORDING TO MODERN HUMAN RIGHTS, EVEN EXECUTION, THAT IS PAYING THE PRICE BY DEATH FOR ONE'S ACTS, IS NOT JUSTIFIED, let alone dying for toher people's faults. Besdies, if you consider that you would want your government to act against those who fire rockets against you as u previously said, then if you are seiged and deprived of your basic medicines and materials, you would want someone to take an action agaisnt those who are depriving you. Israel not only bombs schools, but killed also physicians, as today there was a demonstration for 12 Palestrinian physicians who were killed, not to speak of hitting Red Cross vehicles. What's more? Miss U.S.A , Condy Rice, "understands" what Israel is doing in Palestine. There is no feel of shame anymore.
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Gaza
Jan 8, 2009 15:52:58 GMT -4
Post by echnaton on Jan 8, 2009 15:52:58 GMT -4
this is a justification for killing civilians.
It is not a justification for anything. It is an observation of human nature and the situation. I don't know what the "moral" way to wage war against a group like Hamas is. If you could educate me I would greatly appreciate it.
if you are seiged and deprived of your basic medicines and materials, you would want someone to take an action agaisnt those who are depriving you.
Actions that would stop the deprivations, not prolong them. Fighting an ad hoc war against the vastly superior force that is blockading you is unlikely to ease your situation. Peace negations are far more productive. Gazan's are dieing both because of Israel's attacks and because of their leaders poor decision making. Both problems need to be solved simultaneously.
Another observation. As long a Hamas is willing to fight as a proxy for other radical governments, its citizens will die for those governments.
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Gaza
Jan 8, 2009 16:30:36 GMT -4
Post by Jason on Jan 8, 2009 16:30:36 GMT -4
this is a justification for killing civilians. No, they don't have to live , or actualy die, because of other people's faults. ACCORDING TO MODERN HUMAN RIGHTS, EVEN EXECUTION, THAT IS PAYING THE PRICE BY DEATH FOR ONE'S ACTS, IS NOT JUSTIFIED, let alone dying for toher people's faults. In the U.S. execution is legal and considered moral by a majority of the population. In most Middle Eastern countries it is legal, considered moral, and carried out for additional crimes that it would not be invoked for in the U.S.
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Gaza
Jan 8, 2009 19:53:24 GMT -4
Post by Data Cable on Jan 8, 2009 19:53:24 GMT -4
In the U.S. execution is legal In 36 states.
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Gaza
Jan 9, 2009 12:07:53 GMT -4
Post by Jason on Jan 9, 2009 12:07:53 GMT -4
In the U.S. execution is legal In 36 states. Which is a majority, plus you can be executed on the Federal level.
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Gaza
Jan 9, 2009 14:35:06 GMT -4
Post by Jason on Jan 9, 2009 14:35:06 GMT -4
Did you know that just four days before the fighting began, the Hamas parliament passed a Sharia-based legal code that among other things legalizes crucifixion?
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Gaza
Jan 9, 2009 15:40:46 GMT -4
Post by lionking on Jan 9, 2009 15:40:46 GMT -4
Here in Canada, the Canadian Union of Public Employees (CUPE) wants to ban Israeli professors from teaching, speaking or conducting research in Ontario universities unless they explicitly condemn Israel's actions in Gaza. I don't think CUPE will be successful, but it disturbs me how they're acting like thought police. this is because they care for human rights and they have a sense of morality. why to condemn them?
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