Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Feb 3, 2009 13:16:18 GMT -4
An interesting opinion piece on the subject of torture appeared in the Wall Street Journal today. Basically, he's asking why Congress, if it really believes waterboarding should be banned, doesn't step up and offer a bill doing just that, as they did to President Bush. This time the President says he agrees with them, so why not make it final?
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Feb 3, 2009 13:32:53 GMT -4
A story from the NYT today: "Iraqis voted on Saturday for local representatives, on an almost violence-free election day aimed at creating provincial councils that more closely represent Iraq's ethnic, sectarian and tribal balance. By nightfall, there were no confirmed deaths, and children played soccer on closed-off streets in a generally joyous atmosphere." In 2005, the last time elections were held, there were 299 terrorist attacks. None this time. Last time voter turnout in Anbar province (overwhelmingly Sunni) was 2%. This time it was 40%. Last time candidates loyal to anti-American Moqtada al-Sadr did well. This time Sadr didn't dare to field any candidates, and early reports are that the Supreme Council of Islamic Revolution, a party funded by Iran - was trounced. More secular parties have become popular, such as the Dawa Party of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki. Shiite cleric Abdul Kareem told Al Jazeera "Those candidates who campaigned under the banner of religion should be rejected. They corrupted the name of religion because they are notorious for being thieves. Religion is not politics." More U.S. soldiers died in accidents (12) than in combat (4) in January. Things are really looking up in Iraq all around, and it's because President Bush found the right people (admittedly, finally) to fight the war and solve Iraq's problems. Gen. Petreus was even honored with flipping the coin at the Superbowl. What do you think Iraq's historians will have to say about President Bush in another dozen years? It may be very complimentary.
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Post by trevor on Feb 3, 2009 17:28:57 GMT -4
In reality, I don't think the historians nor the general population will give any credit to the US in years to come. I think it would more be the case that they would record history to show inspite of the US invasion/liberation, Iraq overcame all odds to become a whole counrty again.
Look how thankful the French were/are now.
At the end of the day, the American people need to get over the Bush administration, support Obama, repair a shattered international opinion and fix your country. Hopefully we can get a little peace and a lot less fear in the world.
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Post by RAF on Feb 3, 2009 18:04:02 GMT -4
...the American people need to get over the Bush administration... I'm quite prepared to "get over" the bush administration, just as soon as he and his cronies are made to answer for their crimes...
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Feb 3, 2009 18:22:34 GMT -4
Look how thankful the French were/are now. So you're saying the Iraqis will be just as rude and ungrateful as the French are? Ouch.
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Post by trevor on Feb 3, 2009 18:35:07 GMT -4
RAF - I mean give up on the idea of the Bush admin being brought to task over any perceived wrong doings - it aint gonna happen.
Jason - I know it sounds sad and a bit rude but actually yes I think they will. After time the US will be the bad old capitalist enemy to them, I predict.
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Post by Ginnie on Feb 3, 2009 18:46:34 GMT -4
Maybe Jason has got a point. After all, look how fondly we look back at the Vietnam War and Watergate.
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Post by RAF on Feb 3, 2009 18:57:17 GMT -4
...perceived wrong doings... Perceived???....wow, talk about a bad case of denial... Good to know that you'll be surprised when it does. Sheesh...just how many bush "apologists" are on this board?
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Feb 3, 2009 18:59:12 GMT -4
Maybe Jason has got a point. After all, look how fondly we look back at the Vietnam War and Watergate. My question was how Iraqi historians will view President Bush. It might not take a dozen years for American historians to rehabilitate his image.
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Post by RAF on Feb 3, 2009 19:04:56 GMT -4
It might not take a dozen years for American historians to rehabilitate his image. Now that's never going to happen. Not while there are rational people in this country.
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Feb 3, 2009 19:19:16 GMT -4
Truman left office with terrible popularity, having presided over the beginning of unpopular wars (the Cold War and Korea), and he had the worst recorded popularity ever (worse, by a narrow margin, than Bush or Nixon acheived). When he left office Democrats blamed him for handing the White House to the Republicans (after 20 years of Democratic presidents). Today Truman is something of a liberal icon and highly regarded by scholars (usually ranked in the top 10 presidents).
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Post by trevor on Feb 3, 2009 19:21:08 GMT -4
RAF - I only said perceived bacause I couldn't remember 'allegedly' as one uses before someone is found guilty in a court of law , I didn't agree at all with what the Bush Administration did in Iraq and I had quite a few heated discussions with Jason over it. But at the end of the day what's done is done and we have to make the most of what ever situation we have now.
I am no Bush apologist or fan but I am a realist though, and I don't think Bush will ever be made accountable.
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Al Johnston
"Cheer up!" they said, "It could be worse!" So I did, and it was.
Posts: 1,453
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Post by Al Johnston on Feb 3, 2009 19:27:18 GMT -4
Bush is no Truman
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Post by RAF on Feb 3, 2009 19:37:52 GMT -4
Sorry, Trevor...it was not my intention to mischaracterize you're opinion...
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Post by gillianren on Feb 3, 2009 19:42:20 GMT -4
I have a feeling that Bush is going to be made just as accountable for his actions as Nixon was, though there won't be a Presidential pardon this time around, at least.
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